weddings, cutlery, bread and wine

[RebeccaWithTheGoodHair]

I've been at a few weddings recently in lovely hotels with 3-course wedding breakfasts where the bride, groom and a lot of the guests are blatantly confused by the cutlery.

At DBIL's wedding neither he, new DSIL or her parents had a clue what to use. Poor MIL had to whisper what to do to them - and will probably turn up as an interfering MIL in AIBU herself because of it

Whilst I don't think anyone should have to know what cutlery to use AIBU to think the hotel could at least give the bride and groom a few tips beforehand? Maybe in the paperwork so it's not patronising in any way.

If I didn't know I would like to know so I didn't make a plum of myself at my own wedding.

Not much you can do about the guests I guess but it's mighty irritating to find someone has snaffled your bread roll or one of your wine glasses because they don't know which side is which and the ensuing kerfuffle as the spare one is tracked down.

Whenever I eat out I see people at other tables who clearly don’t know how to hold a knife and fork properly and use the knife to hold food still whilst tearing at it with their fork.

I think they should teach about what cutlery to use at school, I can remember the lunch supervisors teaching us to put our knives and forks together to signal we’d finished eating at primary school so I’m sure they could incorporate where a glass goes and what to do with additional knives and forks.

I’m sure someone will be along to say there is no ‘proper’ way to use a knife and fork and I’m a snob, but there you go.

I'm always a bit surprised by this too. It's perfectly possible to get through even a multi course dinner if you just remember 1) to work from the outside in and 2) your side plate is on your left. It shouldn't be hard to learn those two rules! They should be taught in schools really. Not saying everyone needs a Swiss finishing school but basic table etiquette to prevent you from making a doughnut of yourself wouldn't hurt anyone.

Of all the 'they should teach it at school' subjects, how to use cutlery 'properly' has got to be the most ridiculous.

joinourclub obviously they don’t need to use teaching time for it but just ensure children are using it properly during lunch time as they did when I was at primary school. It’s an important life skill and like it or not people will judge you if you can’t use it properly.

I disagree Joinourclub. It can be very embarrassing and social awkward for an adult not to be aware of this. If DC are having hot lunch at school, it would be really helpful if teachers taught/enforced basic table manners/etiquette.

I was at a London law firm and out for dinner. The lawyer next to me reached over and grabbed our head of group’s bread roll just as he was reaching for it. For a moment I thought there was going to be a food fight! She was absolutely mortified.

If schools taught all the suggestions made on here, including this one, I doubt there would be time left to educate at all. Surely this should be taught by parents and if they aren't capable then be self taught. There's no excuse these days with the internet.

But if people don't know that they don't know then they are not going to look for something that they have no idea exists on the internet!

The lawyer example is a great one. Did she also butter the whole thing in one go and eat it like a sandwich?!

When I first met dp he didn't know these 'rules' simply because he had never been to places where there was more than one set of cutlery laid out (only very, very infrequently ate out anyway). He still sometimes uses his knife to hold down food then sort of pulls at the rest with his fork and crosses his knife and fork across his plate when he's finished. It drives me mad.

And remember not to use the butter knife to cut the bread roll! You need to use your hands to tear the bread.

Did she also butter the whole thing in one go and eat it like a sandwich?!

This is just pure snobbery.

As a teacher I'm usually the first to point out that 'it should be taught in schools' is usually an unreasonable expectation but actually whilst we have universal FSM in infants it is a golden opportunity for lunchtime supervisors to reinforce basic skills.

It's increasingly common in some challenging urban schools for pupils to eat their lunch 'family style' in their tutor groups with their tutor. It makes a huge difference for kids who don't have a dining table at home.

My husband licks his knife. Drives me fucking potty

UnimagintiveUsername it's not really snobbery though as buttering the whole thing in one go is not the correct way to eat them - and this thread is about that.

I'm not saying I would judge her particularly - but the fact is that it's not the right way to eat your bread roll!

It drives me mad too!

And we were taught this in primary school - we had to take turns in small groups to cook a lunch for the headteacher over the year and some other guests. It included planning the meal, invites and setting the table as well as serving the meal nicely.

We made prawn cocktail, shepherds pie with peas and apple pie. I would have been about 9 years old. It was great fun and as I can remember it 30 years on it clearly had benefit!

Used to work in a slightly swanky hotel.

Generally the rule is start from the outside and work your way towards the plate. If you have a funny flat knife type thing thats probably a fish knife, though they are rarely used nowadays.

Starter cutlery should be on the outside

No ripping up bits and buttering them as you go is the upper class way of eating bread rolls. The reason the much more efficient method is frowned upon is because it marks one out as the wrong class.

Lots of the really pointless rules about table manners are really just elaborate tests to identify those who do and don’t belong.

So yes. Snobbery. And frankly a part of table manners that can die a quiet death. It matters that you pick up your own roll (rather than the one allocated to the person next to you) simply so everyone gets a roll. It doesn’t matter whether you know the debrett’s approved way of buttering it.

Same as knowing how to use cutlery properly makes it easier uk eat. It’s hard to cut food if you move the fork rather than the knife (DS1). But many of the more obscure cutlery rules are just the usual class identifier crap so popular in this country.

I learnt from watching Pretty Woman, maybe they should show the film in high school as an educational video.

's not really snobbery though as buttering the whole thing in one go is not the correct way to eat them - and this thread is about that

It is snobbery to think there is a correct way to butter a bread roll. Some of these rules are purely designed to keep non U people in their place and snigger at them when they try to leave it.

Oh my GOD. Someone buttered a bread roll and ATE it? Tell me she was fired. Please. And pelted with olives in the street.

Or get over yourself.

FYI - yes, I know the 'proper' way, no, I don't give a damn, and no, it hasn't affected me in life. Ta for listening.

Start from the outside in and never wear diamonds before lunch, has always been my mantra

I thought I got that from Pretty Woman but I find on Googling it was actually Red Dwarf! Poor Rimmer and his Gazpacho soup.

More seriously, while I enjoy knowing "etiquette" because I find it amusing, I don't think people should be embarrassed by using the "wrong" knife or whatever. I managed to make it through Oxbridge formal hall and any number of client dinners while holding my knife and fork in the "wrong" hands.

Well I learnt from Titanic that you start from the outside, hopefully that's right, it seems to have worked for me anyway! It's ages since I've been to a formal event and I'd completely forgotten about the bread roll disputes 😂

Agree that it's pure snobbery to judge people for the way they eat their roll though 🙄 who gives a fuck. Most people eat their soup 'wrong' as well but as long as they're not chucking it all over me I can't see why I should care.

I absolutely agree that many of the rules are just shibboleths to catch out the 'others'. However, I would like to make a case for butter knives. Don't care how they are held but i do care that they provide the means of taking butter to their own plate without leaving crumbs (or worse) in the butter.

I'm not usually squeamish but find myself quite unable to eat butter mixed with detritus of other people's meals. I see lots of people seemingly phased by this, people who use the butter knife to butter their own bread, then either continue using it (depriving everyone else) or, possibly even worse, putting it back.

How does everyone else manage?

Also, glasses sit on the right above cutlery and side plate should be on the left hand side.
so from left to right
side plate+butter knife sat on top
small starter knife
large main knife
napkin
large main fork
small starter fork/ soup spoon
side plate
-above the setting-
right hand side- glass
Cup & saucer below if required

Dessert spoon and fork should sit above the setting

If you don't care , fair enough, but the OP does - hence her thread.

I care - sometimes for practicality - sometimes for wanting to fit in. Most rules are practical.

If there are 12 at dinner and some are using the side plate on the right and some the plate on the left - we'll end up eating each others' bread rolls!
If someone chews with mouth open or makes a big fuss of slurping, sloshing, licking etc - it may be unpleasant for others, (I find it revolting)

If you use a large knife and fork for the starter you may find you are trying to eat the steak with a mini knife and fork designed to be used for a fish mousse. Good luck with that.

It's you choice what you do but the OP asked. I do think it should be taught at lunch in schools.

Thing is: why would anyone notice or care if someone used their main course knife for their starter? Honestly, why does that matter?