weddings, cutlery, bread and wine

[RebeccaWithTheGoodHair]

I've been at a few weddings recently in lovely hotels with 3-course wedding breakfasts where the bride, groom and a lot of the guests are blatantly confused by the cutlery.

At DBIL's wedding neither he, new DSIL or her parents had a clue what to use. Poor MIL had to whisper what to do to them - and will probably turn up as an interfering MIL in AIBU herself because of it

Whilst I don't think anyone should have to know what cutlery to use AIBU to think the hotel could at least give the bride and groom a few tips beforehand? Maybe in the paperwork so it's not patronising in any way.

If I didn't know I would like to know so I didn't make a plum of myself at my own wedding.

Not much you can do about the guests I guess but it's mighty irritating to find someone has snaffled your bread roll or one of your wine glasses because they don't know which side is which and the ensuing kerfuffle as the spare one is tracked down.

I was actually given lessons on dining etiquette at work! They must have had so many client-facing cutlery embarrassments that they got a woman in tell us how to eat.

Some is such a helpful little word.

SOME

Oh a new version of NAMALT.

A really useful rule I was taught was:

Left has 4 letters - as does fork and food.

Right has 5 letters - as does knife and drink.

So the fork and side plate go in the left, and the knife and drinks glass on the right.

It's the only way I can remember how to set the table (not that we have side plates that often!)

I know all this. I just picked it up and it helped that I was brought up in a Georgian house, I guess. I even know about butter curls and white linen.

What on earth is so difficult about side plate on the left etc etc?

‘Not all knives are like that’

It's time we stopped giving Nancy Mitford the time of day. Who the fuck cares what she thinks anymore. The Mitfords were (mostly) a pack of bitches anyway.

I was brought up fairly humbly, but I don't think high end table manners are that difficult to grasp. Fretting about whether fish knives are U or non U however is a pointless pursuit.

Brought up in a Georgian house. But presumably not in Georgian times, RoseWhite? . What's the relevance?

Brought up in a Georgian house. But presumably not in Georgian times, RoseWhite? confused. What's the relevance?

Yeah, I don't get this either. Do you imbue stuff via architectural osmosis or something?

I have had to go to VERY formal meals in a work context. The whole set-up is extremely intimidating, from the company (very senior, mixture of genuinely very posh and defensively pretentious) to the complicated array of tableware. That's before you get to the port... Knowing the rules, and knowing to wait and watch if you're not sure, makes it that little bit more manageable. As a lower-middle class, state-educated kid, I had no way of knowing I'd ever be in such circles.

I actually agree with this. I'd always rather be in a position of knowledge than ignorance. If you know what the conventions are then you can always choose to ignore them if you want to. It's much more stressful if you don't have that choice.

For my first formal dinner with work in a particular job (long time ago now) I found myself sitting between a peer of the realm and a extremely rich old Etonian businessman feeling considerably out of my depth. That would so not have been the time that I would have wanted to be having to break the ice with "joky" questions about which glass to pour the water into (I remember that one because I picked up the jug, froze as I realised I didn't know which glass to use, and have had a mental block about it ever since). I was quite young, had only recently started in this particular job, and the occasion and company was quite intimidating enough without having to worry about dining conventions. I think it's quite a common anxiety, at many levels. Even the film Mr Bean's Holiday features Mr Bean paralysed with horror in a smart Parisian restaurant confronted with a pile of intimidating-looking shellfish in their shells and a pile of implements he doesn't know what to do with. Similarly, I have never had the courage to order lobster in a restaurant because I'm too scared of making a fool of myself which is sad, really. Knowledge is power!

Oh, and my DGF said he felt like an absolute tool the first time he went to a restaurant serving spaghetti together with his friend and they had to ask the waiter how to eat it, years and years ago! I don't think anybody enjoys feeling that "everybody" around them knows something that they don't. I remember being in a Japanese restaurant as a teenager, clumsily using the chopsticks provided, and looking up to see an elderly Japanese man laughing at me and my chopstick-technique. I was so embarrassed.

@WhyteKnyght I have never had the courage to order lobster in a restaurant

My ds ordered crab in a restaurant in France. An entire crab arrived out, with an array of tools. He could not into it, despite attacking it with various tools. I'm veggie so was no help. The waiter eventually took pity on him, walked over and lifted the shell off the crab. Apparently, they removed the shell in the kitchen and just placed it back on top for decoration!

We ordered lobster for the first time last summer. It came out with a few bits of cutlery that were more like operating tools.

So I did what any person would do and googled "how to eat lobster"

We were on our holidays so thankfully didn't see anyone we knew while we were grappling with it.

What on earth is so difficult about side plate on the left etc etc?

If you know, it's not difficult. If you don't know, it is.
Why so confused?

Yeah, I don't get this either. Do you imbue stuff via architectural osmosis or something?

The house obviously taught RWT she’s the house whisperer

Ooh some people sre

...are

Work "do" the other night, table laid for 3 courses and we were fairly tightly packed, Red, white and water on the table.

Some people were already sat down when I arrived. So I down sat and I'm looking at the table setting and my helpful colleague turns to me and says "you start at the outside and work in" She was using my white wine and water glasses and my other neighbour pinched my roll.

Another time one of the starters was mussels people were eating them in various ways - shells as pincers, cutlery, fingers, using spoons and/or bread for sauce but I was gobsmacked when someone picked up their serving plate and started drinking the sauce from it. No one said anything (i'm sure we've all done similar, but at home, not in a restaurant)

I don't think so, Rosie. Where I'm from most of the Georgian properties are tenements.

Ours was detached.

Did you have a butler?

Really not jealous of a Georgian house.
Quite content with my home.

Ours was detached.

Was that to make room to place all the cutlery either side?