weddings, cutlery, bread and wine

[RebeccaWithTheGoodHair]

I've been at a few weddings recently in lovely hotels with 3-course wedding breakfasts where the bride, groom and a lot of the guests are blatantly confused by the cutlery.

At DBIL's wedding neither he, new DSIL or her parents had a clue what to use. Poor MIL had to whisper what to do to them - and will probably turn up as an interfering MIL in AIBU herself because of it

Whilst I don't think anyone should have to know what cutlery to use AIBU to think the hotel could at least give the bride and groom a few tips beforehand? Maybe in the paperwork so it's not patronising in any way.

If I didn't know I would like to know so I didn't make a plum of myself at my own wedding.

Not much you can do about the guests I guess but it's mighty irritating to find someone has snaffled your bread roll or one of your wine glasses because they don't know which side is which and the ensuing kerfuffle as the spare one is tracked down.

There’s that old story that if the Queen’s guest drinks from a finger bowl she will drink from it too so they are not made to feel awkward or uncomfortable. Because in etiquette terms it is much more vulgar to point out and sneer at faux pas than to make a faux pas in the first place.

It’s all a bit Hyacinth Bucket plastic covers on the sofa and laboured sophisticality.

Oh and absolutely agree about butter knives. Yuck!

No-one would care - I'm just saying it is a question of practicality. You can't cut a steak with a butter knife and tiny shrimp are not easy to eat with a big fork.

Sorry OP, but noticing and noting these things and telling other people you do is far, far more vulgar than using the wrong knife.

Yes. You’d think the worst manners would be to be checking to see if anyone has poured red wine into the white wine glass and feeling all superior because you know some arbitrary rules that person doesn’t. (Or maybe they do know them but prefer to use the smaller glass anyway).

At DBIL's wedding neither he, new DSIL or her parents had a clue what to use. Poor MIL had to whisper what to do to them

Why didn't she and his father teach DBIL when she was bringing up if it matters to her?

When I go to a wedding I want to celebrate with them not look down on their dining etiquette.

I must have gone to the wrong sort of school; we had school dinners, not lunches and the only eating irons available were knives, forks and spoons - one of each. No side plates either...

Yes, the real test of class is what you do when someone gets some rule wrong in my opinion.

I enforce using cutlery nicely, putting them on the plate together etc. with the kids because I think that some things are both the 'correct' way, and more sensible (see above, trying to eat steak with a salad fork). But I'm not going to panic over having the wrong liquid in the wrong shaped glass, or if my child picks up the wrong fork for the wrong course (unless it's just not going to work), and I'm not going to give someone a hard time because they don't some whichever arcane rule regarding what to do with their napkin when they get up.

I've been giggled at in Asia for eating rice with a fork rather than my spoon (and chopsticks), I've been boggled at for automatically using a fork to eat cake (which I thought was actually fairly universal) - so there's not only rules here though.

"so from left to right
side plate+butter knife sat on top
small starter knife
large main knife
napkin
large main fork
small starter fork/ soup spoon
side plate"..........

No No No! This is completely the wrong way around. Surely its......

from left to right
side plate+butter knife sat on top
small starter fork
large main fork
napkin
large main knife
small starter knife/ soup spoon

therebel - I think they should teach about what cutlery to use at school

What, just to pupils whose parents haven't taught them, or everyone? Is there no part of parenting that schools are not expected to get involved with now???

Using cutlery is a basic life skill.

At DBIL's wedding neither he, new DSIL or her parents had a clue what to use. Poor MIL had to whisper what to do to them

Why didn't she and his father teach DBIL when she was bringing up if it matters to her?

Good point!

I just can’t understand how you get to adult hood without knowing to work your way in bread on left wine on right. Maybe it’s the wholechildren should not eat out in nice places spoiling adult time/children should not go to weddings (this is often where most children come across a proper place setting for the first time) brigade then expect people know what to do at all these events as if by magic at age 18 when they’re allowed to attend

I once used both dessert spoon and the fork (both above the dessert plate) and was laughed at for needing both! One in each hand.

I was but I'm sure they are both to be used? Why else would they be there?

Did she also butter the whole thing in one go and eat it like a sandwich?!

What a nasty snobbish comment. I really couldn't give a toss how people butter their roll or hold their cutlery. Life's far too short.

I learned at guides about cutlery I did my hostess badge at a Drs house his wife was the poshest lady I had ever met she whacked you on the back of the hand if you cut food wrong , oh them were the days

I once heard a talk given by a counsellor who worked in a detention centre for young offenders. He said a newly-arrived boy aged 15 asked him to show him how to use cutlery as he had never used a knife & fork in his life. The counsellor's point was that this spoke volumes about the sort of home background this boy must have had - it meant he had never had anyone cook him a proper meal which was eaten round a dining table.
Sometimes such things are symptoms of wider deprivation

MIL is the loveliest, least snobbish person on the planet. She probably doesn't care a jot about how her son or DIL eat. She simply saw them bewildered and she helped them out.

Mine was a practical thought that the info could be put into the wedding pack then the B&G would know in advance.

Presumably everybody who thinks the pompous bullshit beyond wielding a knife and fork with reasonable precision, not chewing with your mouth open and not leaning over others to grab food is important has a social circle which is entirely white, English-born, little-travelled and middle class? Because once you start mixing with people from countries and cultures where table etiquette is entirely different, your insistence that your way of choosing glasses and cutlery is the correct one isn't going to get you very far.

I agree with the importance of certain rules, like which side plate is yours. I remember that one by thinking about the hand I would use to drink my tea, so the cup is on the right, the plate is on the left. Equally, I agree with the pp re the correct cutlery for each course as it sometimes (not always) makes it easier to use particular cutlery for particular dishes. However, slavish adherence to these rules can be ridiculous. For example, providing a fish knife to eat anything that came out of the sea. No, it does not work for a seafood platter. Meaty fish is often easier to cut with an ordinary knife.

I also think the bread roll thing is ridiculous. How on earth does it affect anyone else if you butter it entirely or not at all; if you cut it with your knife or tear it apart? I also think the "correct" way of eating is not always the most effective. Sometimes it is easier to transfer the fork to your right hand and scoop the food up or stab it. Other times it is easier to use the knife to push the food onto the back of the fork. I do whatever makes more sense and I would be very judgemental (as in think they were a ridiculous snob) of anyone who judged me negatively for that.

Lower middle class comtesse very lower middle class and so insecure in their status they feel the need to bolster it by pointing out the flaws in others.

She probably doesn't care

If she doesn't care then I don't get your Poor MIL comment? Why poor MIL?

Mine was a practical thought

so I didn't make a plum of myself at my own wedding

What was the practical thought behind this comment?

side plate+butter knife sat on top

Noooo, thats really not the butter knife. Thats the knife you use to transfer the butter from your plate to the bread (or anywhere else, really).

The butter knife sits on or near the butter, and is used to convey butter to your plate.

As you were.

Did she also butter the whole thing in one go and eat it like a sandwich?!

What a nasty snobbish comment.

Not in the least bit snobby at all to know there is a correct way to do it or to make a joke about it on MN.

DP does it the wrong way and we've been together 20 years. I just make sure to get my bit first so I don't have to put up with his crumbs

ps for unknown reasons, I feel obliged to point out that my point is nothing to do with others and everything to do with keeping the butter pristine.

Why didn't she teach her child when he was younger so this situation didn't arise?

Instead of deciding teachers should be teaching children this, why not put the onus back on parents to show their children the correct cutlery to use?

My mum taught me, it wasn't difficult