weddings, cutlery, bread and wine

[RebeccaWithTheGoodHair]

I've been at a few weddings recently in lovely hotels with 3-course wedding breakfasts where the bride, groom and a lot of the guests are blatantly confused by the cutlery.

At DBIL's wedding neither he, new DSIL or her parents had a clue what to use. Poor MIL had to whisper what to do to them - and will probably turn up as an interfering MIL in AIBU herself because of it

Whilst I don't think anyone should have to know what cutlery to use AIBU to think the hotel could at least give the bride and groom a few tips beforehand? Maybe in the paperwork so it's not patronising in any way.

If I didn't know I would like to know so I didn't make a plum of myself at my own wedding.

Not much you can do about the guests I guess but it's mighty irritating to find someone has snaffled your bread roll or one of your wine glasses because they don't know which side is which and the ensuing kerfuffle as the spare one is tracked down.

Not in the least bit snobby at all to know there is a correct way to do it or to make a joke about it on MN.

No it’s not snobby at all. But it is extremely vulgar. Which is the massive irony. You’re enjoying your little titter at people you think are déclassé when you’re actually committing a far worse crashing déclassé sin by pointing it out.

What was the practical thought behind this comment?

To put the info in the wedding pack (which was my AIBU ...) so that the B&G know what is what. May be useful, may not but at least it's there if they want it.

The rules may be different elsewhere but they are just as highly thought of and usually developed to fit in with the type of food, the culture etc.

buttering the whole thing in one go is not the correct way to eat them

I am SO glad I moved to Australia.

What a lot of crap this sort of talk is. I don't give a stuff how people choose to eat their bread.

This sort of thing only matters to the hoi polloi anyway. People with real class...(which the better among us judge by deeds rather than outward "polish")...don't judge.

To put the info in the wedding pack (which was my AIBU ...) so that the B&G know what is what. May be useful, may not but at least it's there if they want it.

Great idea. Let’s make the B&G feel uncomfortable about their table manners at their wedding.

Nothing would enhance the day like worrying about whether they’re buttering their roll the right way, and if anyone is judging them when they make a mistake.

Wait.... There's a 'proper' way to butter your roll? What is it?!

I learnt from watching Pretty Woman, maybe they should show the film in high school as an educational video

The whole bit about the Hotel Manager telling her to count the tines on her fork to tell if it was for salad or main was not helpful.
If you're eating at the sort of establishment that does have different forks, they will re-set your place setting to rpovide the right cutlery and as mentioned above, start from outside and work inwards.

(And don't start me on Richard Gere character being so rude as to order something like snails in shells for someone unless you know that they would / could eat them. He should have ordered something safe like melon)

The correct way to eat a buttered roll with your fancy pants meal is . Tear in half never cut through butter and eat the halves never as a sadwich it is uncouth or something.

At posh dinners at work I always ask the posh people sitting next to me to let me have their half-used individual pack of butter for my roll, as otherwise it will be wasted (they're unnecessarily large foil wrapped packs, not the little plastic tubs).

I've had my bread plate and wine glass nicked inadvertantly a few times at Christmas parties. Not helped by venues packing people to the tables at absolute maximum capacity.

I can't be bothered over the finer details of buttering a bread roll, but much of the ettiquite of table manners revolves around practical issues such as people using their own utensils and for appropriate foods, and putting cutlery together on the plate when finished makes it less likely to slide off when the plate is removed than if it is just plonked down.

My pet hate is when there is not enough cutlery for courses and you're expected to place it back on the table. If it gets whipped away on the plate it can be difficult to get hold of a waiter for a replacement.

Ah, OK. But buttering it all at once is also the sign of a peasant right? So I should be tearing off bits and buttering them as I go?

(Just curious, I'll do what I like with my own roll )

The thing about ‘table manners’ is that some thing matter to making sure everyone has a pleasant experience. So eating with your mouth closed is helpful to other people. As is making sure everyone gets a roll and a side plate.

The butter issue can be solved by putting individual portions of butter (you can curl them rather than using prepackaged if the waste matters to you) rather than having people share a communal dish.

Using the right cutlery only matters to the individual. It’s harder to eat a steak with a butter knife but it doesn’t make a blind bit of difference to anyone else at the table. Neither does how you butter your bloody roll.

School dinners should be a chance to practice basic manners for eating together. There’s no need for lessons on the correct use of a cherry spoon. Children need to be able to eat together in a sociable manner not pretend they’re in a period drama. The lack of time and space in many schools is what holds back school dinners from being a nice social experience. There’s a lot of research that shows this.

@Joinourclub

Well actually, I taught a class of business studies students a few years ago a group of whom were invited out to a meal in a "posh" (for them) restaurant as a thank you from a local businessman. They reported back their embarrassment and confusion (as outlined in the OP) so now every year we take the class to the local catering college restaurant where the Maitre d explains the basics and they are then served a meal to let them practice.
Better that than have hotel venues expected to explain... which is going to add to the cost for everyone and be considered patronising by those who learned at an early age.

Oops should read "restaurants and other wedding venues"

livinginashowhomenot some parents will teach their kids how to use cutlery and some won’t, but there’s no harm in lunch supervisors also sitting down with and making sure children know how to hold knives and forks. Obviously I’d prefer all children to have the same start in life, but that’s unrealistic and as a previous poster pointed out all infants get free school meals so that is an excellent opportunity to make sure everyone knows the ‘rules’ then they have the choice whether to follow them or not.

FFS - just google it!

How do people still not know how to use cutlery? Do parents not teach this to kids anymore?

I think it’s quite amusing that the supposedly polite way to eat a bread roll is to tear it up with your hands. It’s somehow ‘wrong’ to use the knife provided to cut the thing. Kind of goes against all the logic governing the rest of cutlery use.

Use your knife and fork. But not to cut a bread roll.

It would be ridiculously patronising for the hotel to "give the bride and groom a few tips beforehand" on how to use the cutlery!
Surely not being able to navigate your way round a series of flatware isn't as widespread as you say?

Not a bad idea for schools to teach it, if parents can't or won't. A 5 minute job, surely? Work from inside out, glass on R, sideplate on L, sorted.

At least it would save embarrassment for people faced with a formal dinner for the first time.
My DM, who bless her had been hideously thus embarrassed when very young and self conscious, made sure we all knew what to do before it ever happened. Inc., if faced with any strange dish/implement, just watch to see what other people do.

There's an old story of a Thomas Lipton (I think) who, not knowing what it was for, picked up his finger bowl and drank from it. Whereupon the host or hostess - possibly Queen Vic? - not wanting him to be embarrassed, promptly did the same.
Story didn't go on to tell whether TL was profoundly embarrassed once he found out.

An interesting point is made about eating correctly in other parts of the world and that you can feel uncomfortable for not being able to do it properly (or following the 'rules').

TheRebel
I do hope your knife and fork were placed in the correct position on your primary school plate - with the fork tunes facing up, obv.

Lol

How are you supposed to butter a bread roll?? I am also a lawyer, who butters the whole thing, although an uncle once told me you're not supposed to dip it in your soup

...fork tines

The people suggesting teaching the use of sideplates in schools, have you actually seen a school dinner service? There is often barely enough time to actually feed everyone (often in batches because the dinner hall isn’t big enough for everyone to eat together), never mind start ensuring that there are side plates and multiple sets of cultlery.