About other people’s children

[Curiousaboutchoices]

I sometimes feel like I am the only ‘strict’ parent around. We are surrounded by lovely people but many are what I would describe as permissive parents. This goes from the very extreme ‘Jane is just experimenting with gravity ’ when 3 year old Jane was deliberately throwing breakable items down a set of stairs, to a milder version whereby people consistently let their kids speak rudely, interrupt, scream and shout if they are ignored or don’t get their own way. Behaviour such as taking toys off another child, ignoring instructions/requests, being rude are often laughed at. Lots don’t restrict tv, screens or gaming, let their kids eat loads of sweets and chocolate in between meals, let their kids get up and down from the table, go to bed when they like, or put their kids to bed and then do nothing when they get back up again. This all makes play dates and sleepovers incredibly hard when all this is acceptable behaviour at home but not in my house.

No one would think it acceptable for an adult to behave like this. If I was unable to go out for dinner without getting up and wandering around people would think I was a little odd. I’m not talking toddlers, I’m talking KS1 and 2. And it’s a lot of the visitors to my house, not a small minority.

I can hear people saying already ‘not your kids, not your business’, which is right, but what these parents create is kids who are incredibly hard work outside the home. When kids stay over or come to play they are unable to cope with an adult not responding to their whims immediately, find it odd that I tell them not to help themselves my food cupboards or go into my bedroom, don’t like being told they have to sit still at a table to eat and can’t get up and down, etc.

Is this a nationwide modern phenomenon now, that children can do what they like or am I just living in a weird bubble?

I got taught I can do as I please at home but as soon as I go to another persons house weather it be a relative or friends I always ask permission to do anything including going to the toilet and I taught my children the same things.
Manners cost nothing!
If I ever found out my children had gone to someone's house and disrespected them by being naughty or rude I'd be very upset and I wouldn't let them go again until they learnt how to behave.

Thistle - on any level running around in a restaurant is incredibly bad manners to all around you who are trying to enjoy a social occasion, but loads of people do it and it does make it difficult when you are surrounded by permissive parents, all of whom think it’s ok, and it’s only your kids out of several families who have to sit still until they have finished their meal and can go outside.

I think people are right though, I just need to distance us from these people.

I feel for you DC's bff is a nightmare. When I'm left in charge, if they are naughty and I try to tell them not to do something bff answers me back in defence mode and is only 6! I would never have contemplated talking back to another adult as a child and find the while thing horrifying. Just trying to make sure mine aren't as cheeky.

Peanut, the problem is that ultimately the world hasn’t changed. These poor kids are going to go to school/secondary and into the world of work and get an almighty shock that they are sudddnly not the centre of the universe.

Olivia, I think I’ve made it clear that I don’t think I’m perfect at all, I don’t have that many basic rules for guests and that i simply have a lot of kids coming who behave in an entitled fashion. Their parents have created that. I think it’s really sad, because they are in for a shock.

"Makes it so much harder when other people’s kids are running round a cafe or shop to explain that they can’t get down and that that’s not acceptable"

Your children will come across many situations where other children will have different rules or behaviour expectations, sometimes with very good reason. Your children will need to get used to that.

Sleepy, I agree but it doesn’t make the actual happening any less fucking irritating

We went to a family meal yesterday an I'm quite strict and routined with my almost 1 year old. She's so well behaved majority of the time. I expect the odd tears etc, she's a baby. But she sits nicely in her high chair etc. Am my cousins 8 year old was causing a scene, trying to bully my dd and they blame it on autism. (which she has indeed been tested for and results came back she isn't autistic of the sort. I actually find it offensive being as though my brother had asbergers)
She's not autistic. She's just desperate for some damn attention because her mom can't be bothered to discipline her or give her any guidance.
Do what you're doing cause a lot of kids will grow up to be little shits cause their parents can't be arsed

I think you've been a bit unlucky OP. I've seen instances of lots of the things you mention with guests but not lots of issues with lots of guests.

I do definitely think there is a trend for not teaching manners to kids nowadays thought so I'm afraid its going to get worse.

I saw a mother on a plane the other day who kept hitting her two very young children every time they made a sound. Much more pleasant for others around them as they were quiet the entire time, but at what cost? The eldest of the two kept hitting her back in the face so it turned into a whacking competition at times. God help her when he’s older now he knows hitting is appropriate and god help anybody else in his life.
My two kids were also silent the whole time, they had their iPads (shock, horror!) for some of that time, or their books or activity books... and mine were the better behaved. Sure, I didn’t manage their screen time, but honestly what long term damage can being allowed to travel with devices do?
All kids are different, sure, but forcing kids into submission is a weird thing to do and just installs into them that they must obey or be hurt/punished... whereas I teach it’s just better and easier to live peacefully amongst people... not in a tree hugging way, just a way that ensures everybody is as happy as possible. Why they shouldn’t be loud in public without cause, why they should be mindful of others around them etc. Explaining why they shouldn’t do things or should do things has always worked for us, my eldest is ND and even he responds to this - obviously not as well as my youngest but still. They're very well behaved, especially compared to other kids. But also when other kids act up it really doesn’t bother me like it does with some people, kids aren’t adults and just because mine don’t do it doesn’t mean others don’t for whatever reason. I mostly feel bad for the parent, unless they come down on the kids like a tonne of bricks then all of a sudden I feel sorry for the kid who’s just having a bad day and doesn’t know how to express themselves and their parents are showing no effort in trying to show them how to best channel themselves.

Obviously you’ve brought up some pretty extreme examples of stuff in your posts which are unacceptable, I’d have just said it’s unacceptable and to leave though if it was too bad

My friends who were brought up in strict environments all rebelled when they were older, whereas it wasn’t the case for those in more laid back environments.

I think at the end of the day I just want to treat my children like humans and not control them, I don’t want them thinking it’s okay to speak to or treat people badly in order for them to ‘behave’... otherwise that’s exactly what they will do, just not to me or in front of me.
It’s always better to teach through respect rather than fear... in MY opinion.

That said, people can raise kids how they like, its nothing to do with me in the slightest (unless the adult they turn into as a result of this affects others) I don’t think it’s possible to get everything right but my kids are so well turned out that I’m happy in what I’m doing at least

Wow wall of text! Sorry! I just wanted to explain how I felt about it and ended up zoning out and typing too much

I can see you are talking about children that you know but the problem comes when some people extend it to children they no nothing about. My child does stuff that other children are not allowed to do but other children seeing this is not his or my problem.

Makes it so much harder when other people’s kids are running round a cafe or shop to explain that they can’t get down and that that’s not acceptable

Maybe I’m just hard but I don’t find it makes things harder at all. I set rules without reference to anyone else’s parenting.

My D.C. understand that the reason you don’t run around in restaurants is that the staff are carrying hot things and sharp things and getting under their feet is dangerous as well as inconsiderate.

“Just because those children are allowed to behave badly is no reason for you to” works perfectly well as a response.

Fracntically, I have never hit my children. I don’t need to, my words and rules are discipline enough. I rarely shout, my kids know they can politely challenge decisions and rules and that they can safely debate decisions and consequences. But ultimately they know that what I say goes, not because they are frightened, but because they understand my role as a parent who loves them and who is trying to keep them safe and healthy and teach them to keep themselves safe and healthy.

Selfishly, I also don’t want them to grow up into dick heads, so telling them that certain behaviour is unacceptable isn’t being controlling or dogmatic, it’s sharing with them a truth that is much more palatable at 4 from your mum than at 24 from a Stranger.

Never had children but can recognise badly brought up children who seem to be euphemistically called 'free spirits' these days.

I assume bratty children grow into bratty adults and almost feel sorry for them because adult life is going to be a major shock when people won't tolerate their bad behaviour.

My two are all grown now and although they have no DC their friends are 'beginning that journey'. I do see a vast difference in the number of permissive parents. When I was raising mine there were a few who let their child rule the roost but it was relatively rare. And if a child was a brat, they didn't get invited many places or have playdate offers accepted after the first go round.

You know, come to think of it, a couple of them actually managed to figure out that they weren't being invited places and to 'self correct' to the point where they behaved when at others' homes and were only brats when their parents were around to 'protect' them.

OP there's no rule that we have to allow every child under the sun into our homes in the name of 'being fair'. You have the right to not invite a child who is rude or disruptive. And you have the right to leave a place if you are out and another child is acting up.

Sleepy, I don’t judge single situations, one of my favourite memories was seeing a mother in a supermarket allow her child to have a complete tantrum on the floor while she quietly stacked her shopping on the belt. It continued as she packed her shopping up, completely ignoring him. She then waited on a bench at the end until he finished, got up ans then they went out together. Actually I did judge her, I thought she was a goddess.

No, these are kids I know, and parents I know, not ignorant judgement calls.

Acrossthepond - I do do the leave thing if I need to. What would I say to my child though about the reason Im not allowing child X back? Be honest?

I'm one of the strict ones too. When my kids have had play dates who jump on the sofas/sit on the kitchen tables, my kids look agast "we don't do that here" is muttered by them pretty quickly!

I get a bit fed up of the generalisations.

And the "thing" that just because our parents said that to do it this way is good manners, we have to get our kids to do it this way too...

bollocks... times change... thankfully.

I don’t want them thinking it’s okay to speak to or treat people badly in order for them to ‘behave’...

Frantically your post displays some rather odd notions. It’s perfectly possible to have nicely behaved, well mannered children with out hitting, “controlling” or being nasty to them.

I have high standards and my children are very well behaved, but my observations are that I have far less arguments/punishments and upset in my house than I witness in more laid back homes.

I rarely raise my voice, we don’t do naughty spot or time outs, punishments of any kind are rare and I would certainly never hit them.

I’m strict as far as expected behaviour goes but I have a very happy, fun and loving relationship with my children.

Well behaved doesn’t have to equal miserable you know, quite the opposite.

@Curiousaboutchoices , I never said you did. Also I explained that explaining to children is the best way to approach this as a general rule.

But making it so that children want to behave instead of being forced to behave through fear of X Y Z or just knowing that you’re the boss, seems much healthier to me. Mine just respect my opinion and input rather than knowing what I say goes. They also know I can be wrong sometimes and to accept that too.

On the other end of the scale there’s the “free spirits” as PP put it, who will also struggle in life.
I think I fit somewhere in the middle?

That aside, I think parenting style has much to do with the children. Children are not all mass produced of the same thing, they’re all different.
Explaining to our children is all well and good but a LOT of children wouldn’t respond to it at all, some need a more gentle approach and some the opposite.

TLDR; I think our parenting approaches are completely irrelevant because all children respond differently to different things, it’s not so much to do with us as it is with them and how they respond. As long as you have them in mind and aren’t allowing them to destroy things or cause distress or disrespect others, without at least trying your best to explain why we shouldn’t do that and it is entirely unacceptable... then just do your thing

@Thistlebelle unsure if you’re being intentionally pedantic. I wasn’t saying all parents do that, I was giving extreme example as that’s what PP seemed to be doing. I said it’s better to XY rather than AB, in MY opinion. I wasn’t saying every parent in the world who expects well behaved children hits their children, I simply brought up an occasion it was used... otherwise surely I’d fall into that category too? As I said my children are well behaved.

Don’t be ridiculous, I didn’t say anything of the sort

Well I doubt that all of the children are allowed to do all of the things you describe. No matter how strict you are I would be surprised if you don’t allow some things that are not permitted in other households. Some parents don’t allow any tv for eg. I consider myself a strict parent but my children are allowed in my room and if they have finished eating they aren’t made to sit at the table until everyone else has finished.
Other parents will always have different rules and that’s fine (it would be odd to expect them not to tbh) you just have to maintain your own rules in your own home. Or the important ones at least.
So if you are told x child likes to experiment with gravity with your ornaments then you can let them know that you don’t want them broken and offer them some balls to throw in the garden. If they are allowed to break their parents stuff at home then that’s their lookout.
It is actually good for kids to learn that people have different rules imo. Teachers rules will vary slightly and it is good for kids to be flexible. And also if they are aware that parents have different rules you don’t have the situation when out and about that they expect to be allowed to do x because their friend is allowed.
Even worse than the permissive parent imo is the parent who shoots you dirty looks for allowing your child to climb a tree when theirs isn’t allowed because their child is having a tantrum and they want you to change your rules to make their rules easier to enforce.

Beyond - not really sure what you’re saying in your last post?

We went to a family meal yesterday an I'm quite strict and routined with my almost 1 year old. She's so well behaved majority of the time. I expect the odd tears etc, she's a baby. But she sits nicely in her high chair etc.

Do you really mean not quite 1? In what way can you be strict with a not even one year old, or class behaviour as good or better? "Sitting nicely"? Brain boggling