About other people’s children

[Curiousaboutchoices]

I sometimes feel like I am the only ‘strict’ parent around. We are surrounded by lovely people but many are what I would describe as permissive parents. This goes from the very extreme ‘Jane is just experimenting with gravity ’ when 3 year old Jane was deliberately throwing breakable items down a set of stairs, to a milder version whereby people consistently let their kids speak rudely, interrupt, scream and shout if they are ignored or don’t get their own way. Behaviour such as taking toys off another child, ignoring instructions/requests, being rude are often laughed at. Lots don’t restrict tv, screens or gaming, let their kids eat loads of sweets and chocolate in between meals, let their kids get up and down from the table, go to bed when they like, or put their kids to bed and then do nothing when they get back up again. This all makes play dates and sleepovers incredibly hard when all this is acceptable behaviour at home but not in my house.

No one would think it acceptable for an adult to behave like this. If I was unable to go out for dinner without getting up and wandering around people would think I was a little odd. I’m not talking toddlers, I’m talking KS1 and 2. And it’s a lot of the visitors to my house, not a small minority.

I can hear people saying already ‘not your kids, not your business’, which is right, but what these parents create is kids who are incredibly hard work outside the home. When kids stay over or come to play they are unable to cope with an adult not responding to their whims immediately, find it odd that I tell them not to help themselves my food cupboards or go into my bedroom, don’t like being told they have to sit still at a table to eat and can’t get up and down, etc.

Is this a nationwide modern phenomenon now, that children can do what they like or am I just living in a weird bubble?

FWIW I agree with you OP. I've had what I consider to be appalling behaviour in my house from other people's kids - jumping on the sofas, breaking stuff deliberately and then acting sly when challenged, demanding food and drink and treating me as if I'm there to wait on them, general rudeness, lack of any semblance of table manners (e.g. 9 year olds eating with their hands) ... ugh I could go on. But you know what? Anyone who behaves like that isn't welcome back. I don't care if they're good friends of my kids. I won't have unruly little shits trashing my house. Maybe at some point their parents will realise that their DC don't get invited anywhere twice, but I won't hold my breath!

We allow our children to go in and ou of our bedrooms, help themselves to food, jump on the furniture and leave the table if they have finished their food/don't want any more. I tell them that they can't do it at other peoples houses but i am not going to stop parenting them the way i want to because other people do it differently.

DH parents them differently from me and would probably allow scootering in supermarkets and running around in cafes. I do not.

There could be three different factors at play:

1. they are excited because they're in someone else's house and hence pushing all the boundaries they can
2. their parents are lax
3. you aren't giving them clear boundaries and as they haven't learnt yet to set their own boundaries they don't realise their behaviour is unacceptable. By my reckoning that makes it only 33% likely that the parents are lax and in 66% of cases it's within your control to change their behaviour in your house.

Juneau and all the others who’ve said the same, what do you tell your child though? I don’t share these views with my kids as wouldn’t want them to leak back - I genuinely don’t blame the kids though it makes them quite unlikeable.

And it would rule out an awful lot of visitors. This isn’t a one or two off, its certainly a local trend.

Any additional needs situations are of course different, and I’d bend over backwards to accommodate health related stuff, and do.

I think some things most (if not all) of us on MN would agree on, such as breaking things or potentially harming someone or causing them great difficulty (ie scootering around busy places).
But a lot of things, I think, just comes down to personal preference. As an adult, I am able to get up from the table when I choose, I do find it hard to sit still for a long period but never understood the cause for that. I just get uncomfortable and fidgety to the point I want to jump up and scream (want to, but don't). I hate long car journies, planes etc where I have to sit still.

Some parents find it funny for their very young child (2-4 year olds) to call people "poo poo head", or find it appropriate for their 6 year old to stand there tapping them on the arm saying dad repeatedly until they answer whilst talking to other people. Some mum's think it's perfectly normal for their 15 year old son to lay on the sofa and demand a drink then have a paddy because there's not enough Robinsons in, and they go remake it and bring in some sweets to cheer up their little cherub. Then some mums discipline their child by shouting in their face and making them sit facing the wall for running around, whilst the rest of the children continue to play chase around them. Or parents who smack...

I've personally seen all the above, and don't think any of it is acceptable. We all have different standards. What is important to you might not be to me or anyone else.

Hmm, I see your point to an extent, OP. One of my DCs best friends is sadly not allowed back in our house because her older sibling’s behaviour towards my animals and possessions was so out of control and the mother made no attempt to address it.

On the other hand, I think parenting is often about prioritising your battles. I have been vigorous in getting my children to treat others with respect, say hello, how are you etc, and to always be kind and have manners. I am also always having to remind them to get chores done and tidy up after themselves. Things like walking round the supermarket is fun, not stressy- so I think I am doing okay.

A lower priority, I have to say, has been table manners. They’re okay, but it’s the next thing I will really work on. A childless friend came to stay and made a point of saying how important table manners were, noted that my DCs had left the table without asking (the horror) and how I needed to grip this urgently. I reminded her that they’re my children, I am doing the best job I can, and my DCs area complete delight where it counts (okay, so I am biased!).

Sometimes what seems permissive parenting is actually just one tiny snapshot, and maybe there are other things more important to that parent?

That said, Jane and parents would not be allowed in my house.

I had my kids a while ago when I think on average parents were stricter. I did have a friend who was very lax with her children - I stopped inviting them all round even as a family as she would not correct bad behaviour and they wouldn't listen to me (while my own children looked on in horror ). A couple of years later she was bemoaning the fact that it was impossible to take them into town as they just ran riot in all of the shops and several shops had even banned them! This is whilst they are under 10 and in her supposed care!

Moral is I guess you reap what you sow..

If the parents don't address the behaviour, I do. If they don't like it, they don't come back.

I'm lucky in that being a childminder who has minded most of my friends' children at some point, has helped me to establish my house rules quite easily.

If someone is allowing their child to destroy your house, they don't have any respect for you and are not your friend. Maybe you need to put your foot down, allow those who wish to to flounce out of your life and find some friends whose approach better matches your own. Then, hopefully, you'll be able to relax a bit and actually enjoy interacting with them.

Mrs koala - seems your kids aren’t coming to my house. I don’t think they are told that these activities are not applicable when you are a guest. As I said in the opener, I don’t care what people do unless it impacts on me.

I do give rules, gently at first, then increasingly strict tones. They are often ignored. Repeatedly. Sometimes with laughs and rude comments. That’s not my rules being ineffective, that’s a child’s flagrant disregard for rules about which he has been informed on numerous occasions. Is that really my fault?

And I don’t have huge numbers of play date rules. sitting at a table to eat with basic manners is the main one. I don’t think that’s too much to ask?

Ah. Another melodrama over children not being born with a full set of adult skills and knowledge. It takes time. As it's thankfully no longer acceptable to beat "manners" into children then it takes longer. If you really can't stand them learning on your time just avoid that section of the population until they're 18. It's ageist. But that's just you. What a quirky person you are

Personally I've never come across any children who have trashed a home they were visiting.

However, OP, I assume you are talking about NT children who "should know better".

For every lazy / slack/ no boundaries etc etc parent, there are also plenty of parents who are trying to encourage good behaviour in their children and the kids often get it so wrong it's quite shocking for parents whose children are generally pretty well behaved.

I am a teacher (swimming) and have over the years dealt with so many children of various abilities. Some children are easy and others not so. Some just can't process this information at a time when they, NTypically speaking, should be able to. It can be enormously frustrating for everyone.

I'm not suggesting that crappy behaviour is acceptable, but please spare a thought for the parents and the kids themselves who are enduring therapy of all kinds - speech/ social skills classes etc etc to try and help their children be less socially awkward/ destructive etc etc.

It's a horrible situation for parents who desperately want their children to have play dates and for themselves to be included.
Spare a thought for those parents who, after seeing or hearing about their children's less than wonderful behaviour, just want to run and hide and never see anyone again. How isolating.

I hope you see my point.

I don't think valuing good manners is "quirky" and nobody said they think beating children is ok

I am so in agreement OP. A friend's ds deliberately destroyed my ds's Hornby set, stamped on it and tore the display from the walls of his bedroom. Ds was in tears and friend said 'oops'. Fucking 'oops'. I threw them out.

Sorry, Curious, i'm tired and struggling understanding what this means I don’t think they are told that these activities are not applicable when you are a guest. As I said in the opener, I don’t care what people do unless it impacts on me.

Oooeeerr I think the support on this thread shows my view is neither lone nor quirky. You’re entitled to disagree of course. It’s hardly ageist - my beef is with the parents who span the child rearing spectrum - that’s just a silly comment.

I don’t accept it takes in excess of ten years to acquire basic table manners if they are taught in the home, additional needs aside. That’s just tosh.

I have just ordered the book "I hate other people's kids" thanks for the tip

My kids know not to go upstairs in someone else's house unless taken by the children of that family, and would take their lead behaviour wise from them. But in our home there are no out of bounds areas, ey are welcome to go in our room, use our stuff etc as long as they respect it. If the don't, they don't get to go back/use it until they can. They have always had a bedtime, but are welcome to call us or get up as needed if they want us. If they need us in the night they come and find us, or get in with us. They don't have to clear their plates, but need to eat properly. They can get down before us if they ask and take their plates to the kitchen. If they forget please or thank you as long s they asked nicely they won't get corrected. If they interrupt I will check that it isn't an emergency and if it is, I will deal with it and if it isn't, they are told that I want to hear what they have to say but that they need to wait a minute while we finish our conversation. Etc etc.

Koala -no worries. I meant its fine perhaps to help yourself to food in your own house, if they are your rules, but not in another home where you are a guest. You tell your kids not to do it elsewhere and that has the same effect - ie they wouldn’t do it outside the home. That’s all I meant, sorry if it wasn’t clear.

I find it strange that you know so many badly behaved children and lax parents. We have a lot of children over to play at our house and in general they’re well mannered, play nicely etc. I’ve never had a child round who has trashed anything/got down from the table before it was appropriate to do so. You seem to be terribly unlucky in this regard!

I tell other people's kids off willy nilly, especially in my own house.

But then I'm a primary teacher and am used to it

I have quite boundaried parenting. But my dd has the chance to be her. I see her friend being put down and told off far too much. I explain to dd how to behave. Whereas this mother / father tell her off for doing something wrong in public saying she’s rude. When I spoke to my dd about the situation, I asked her if she thought her friend was rude. And she said yes (minor thing btw of not standing by her mother but sitting playing on her tablet when I collected dd). I agreed it was a bit rude and added that dd wouldn’t want me to tell her in front of her friends though. I’d have asked her to come over to say goodbye and had a chat about expectations after.

As for other parents, I’m chronically ill. Don’t have many friends. But my friends have similar parenting styles. Couldn’t be doing with someone, who thought it ok to bish my dd or hit their parents. My dd has threatened to punch me a couple of times. Swiftly dealt with and all that. Also wouldn’t be friends with the parents, who put their kids down. Can’t stand that due to my childhood.

Anyway, your house, your rules.

I am extremely happy for people to tell my kids not to do stuff if i'm not present. I hate it when adults sit mutely watching bad behaviour of children just because they aren't their parent. If kids come to my house and don't behave the way i want i tell them. I am clear which rooms they can go in and i tell them they can jump on my bed if they take their shoes off etc. I point to cupboards they can help themselves from etc. I expect when my dc go to houses they (and me) are told what is expected of them.

What i find odd is how many strict parents come to my house and let their kids trash it and then are strict in their own house. I am the other way round.

The dog - aside from the night time disturbances which we don’t allow unless an emergency or a wet bed, bad dream etc, we are on the same page. I’m not on about perfect manners, i mean basic manners. I’m really with you that it’s the overall effect that counts, not whether they manage to bang please into the end of every other sentence.

It’s definitely widespread, really don’t understand why though.

My friends are all really lax with their kids and they think I’m too strict. My house my rules. That said I think my friends are great but I wouldn’t trust them with my kids.
My rules include, sitting at the table with everyone to eat, holding my hand when out (3 kids 4 and under), basic manners can’t really think of anything else but I don’t think they’re too extreme.
Makes it so much harder when other people’s kids are running round a cafe or shop to explain that they can’t get down and that that’s not acceptable