About other people’s children

[Curiousaboutchoices]

I sometimes feel like I am the only ‘strict’ parent around. We are surrounded by lovely people but many are what I would describe as permissive parents. This goes from the very extreme ‘Jane is just experimenting with gravity ’ when 3 year old Jane was deliberately throwing breakable items down a set of stairs, to a milder version whereby people consistently let their kids speak rudely, interrupt, scream and shout if they are ignored or don’t get their own way. Behaviour such as taking toys off another child, ignoring instructions/requests, being rude are often laughed at. Lots don’t restrict tv, screens or gaming, let their kids eat loads of sweets and chocolate in between meals, let their kids get up and down from the table, go to bed when they like, or put their kids to bed and then do nothing when they get back up again. This all makes play dates and sleepovers incredibly hard when all this is acceptable behaviour at home but not in my house.

No one would think it acceptable for an adult to behave like this. If I was unable to go out for dinner without getting up and wandering around people would think I was a little odd. I’m not talking toddlers, I’m talking KS1 and 2. And it’s a lot of the visitors to my house, not a small minority.

I can hear people saying already ‘not your kids, not your business’, which is right, but what these parents create is kids who are incredibly hard work outside the home. When kids stay over or come to play they are unable to cope with an adult not responding to their whims immediately, find it odd that I tell them not to help themselves my food cupboards or go into my bedroom, don’t like being told they have to sit still at a table to eat and can’t get up and down, etc.

Is this a nationwide modern phenomenon now, that children can do what they like or am I just living in a weird bubble?

@thisdog meaning everything we go out she's well behaved. She's not stupid and if she does something wrong me and her dad will tell her abruptly. She's old enough now to understand that pinching us isn't OK. She's stopped doing it.
It's never too young to teach them manners etc. Obviously you can't reason with a newborn but you can an almost toddler.

Where are all these terribly behaved children? I haven't had any visit our home. Sometimes the visiting children behave better than my own.

I wonder if people are reluctant to admit their children are badly behaved or maybe it's because MN users are a very small minority of parents in total?

Beyond - not really sure what you’re saying in your last post?

my parents culture is different to the culture where children are required to sit at table til all are finished, where children are required to use cutlery to eat, where children go to bed early and are seen but not heard... It all sounds insufferably stuffy to me, having been brought up elsewhere.

Should I follow their idea of good manners, should I follow yours, should I just go with the flow and make it up as I go on without blindly following some construct made by others(I took the third option and have lovely kids).

Why does waiting 40 min for my mother-in-law to eat a sandwich make the kids any better mannered? (she shares your view that children must wait at table for all to finish - so we no longer eat with her often)

I agree with you op and struggle a bit with it too.

For example ds has a best friend from school nursery who sometimes come for tea.

His mum is lovely and we get on well, but we definitely don't parent the same.

Ds' fríend also has a 1yo sister.

Last time all three were here, friend sulked, punch ds (because they wanted to play different games), cried because he didn't have a big enough blob of ketchup on his plate and wouldn't stop 'swordfighting' with ds at the table.

He was also smashing together some of ds' new Christmas toys (playing car crashes) so hard that one of them cracked and refused to apologise because he 'was only playing'

The one year old also repeatedly tried to eat the coal from the fireplace, as one years olds are wont to do.

But not once did fríends mum tell her ds to pack it in and play nicely, nor did she do anything to distract the baby.

So I was scurrying from the kitchen to the living room trying to stop the baby eating the fireplace and the boys from causing mayhem.

I feel terrible now because ds keeps asking to have friend over again but I don't think I could cope again.

I don't even think I'm particularly strict.

Sleepy - yup, so you start as you mean to go on and deal as things arise. If they know the rules from day 1 though it’s sn awful lot easier for everyone concerned, including the child.

@curious I see 7 year old in the family still throwing food. Riciulous. My dd doesn't do it and she isn't even 1 yet. It's just an excuse for lazy parenting
It's strict discipline. It pisses me off when there's 8 years olds pushing me out the way of a shop while I'm heavily pregnant with no manners. Some parents are just Incredibly lazy. My 4 year old cousin isn't even potty trained and its such a shame as it's down to his mom not being arsed to care for him. He's been left in cars unattended in his car seat, smoked around. It's terrible the way some kids are bought up but you can't reason with them

Beyond - think you’ve put words in my mouth. I require kids to sit at the table until THEY are finished, not until everyone has finished if adults are there. As they get older and more involved in conversation I may encourage this though, but not all the time.

If they are sitting and eating with friends then yes they all wait til everyone has finished unless one is particularly slow. Just basic manners really on a play date?

I wonder if you're making assumptions based on behaviour at playdates/sleepovers or are these people you know very well? I'm often told all kinds of unlikely bollocks by kids trying it on in my house. I don't believe very much of it. I also see all kinds of boisterous over excited behaviour that I'm reasonably sure their parents wouldn't allow. My youngest had her first sleepover a few months back. It was a big gang of kids and, by all accounts, they ran riot and didn't go to sleep until 5. I was horrified. Absolutely none of the behaviour I heard about is allowed here and I doubt if many of the other parents would allow it either but they all went completely lord of the flies.

@Wiggypig - Yes but she is unusual. She looks at least 3 and acts that age too. The gap between her and her sister looks considerably less than it is. I’d definitely expect each of those consistently by about 5 though for a child with no other concerns I think? I definitely think if you act as though you expect them straight away they just get used to how you expect them to behave.

I struggle with this, personally. I'm from a country where table manners don't matter as much as they do in England. My parents were very relaxed and we never had a bedtime routine as such. We went to bed whenever we wanted. We would go to our friends houses and get in without knocking on the front door, and nobody would lock their front doors during the day. We were pretty much free to do whatever we wanted. I'm a normal, balanced adult with a good education and an ok job.

I feel that I am stricter with my kids that my parents were with me, for sure. But still not good enough by your standards. And you know what? I don't care one bit if I am judged by someone like you.

I so hear you on this, I am a pretty relaxed parent but do not accept rudeness or being unaware of others. I have friends with a 7 year old who is an absolute nightmare. Kicks footballs in places where there are babies sleeping in pushchairs, parents say nothing and don’t even attempt to take the ball of him. Ball gets kicked higher and harder until it lands right on my friends’ babies’ face. Parents still did nothing. Disgraceful. If I said something I’d be the bad guy too so no thanks. Very frustrating.

That's helpful Lollipop, thank you.

You do realise other people find your children JUST as annoying don’t you?

This is so true. I can't bear parents who think their children can do no wrong, have been raised perfectly and don't misbehave. We're all trying our best, sometimes we make mistakes with our parenting and if you are judging other people, remember you only get a snapshot of what goes on.

I really can't see the point of threads like this, other than to judge. If the worst thing you have to put up with is other people's children behaving badly in your own occasionally, you really have nothing to complain about.

I hear you op. I'm always complimented on my dcs behaviour. Apparently I'm lucky - nope just very clear boundaries and high expectations.

I'm also unreasonable as I expect dc to do jobs round the house and don't pay them. To me it's what being in a family is all about so my dc empty the dishwasher week day mornings. No money but I do say thank you.

I think people should avoid saying that because my very young child doesn't do something, older children shouldn't be doing it. It sometimes isn't that simple.

We had three of my eldest daughter's friends for a sleepover (aged 9). One child thought it funny to spit her chewed up chicken nuggets onto another child's plate. Then she drew on another one's dress with permanent marker. Then she decided to make "potions" with all of the stuff in the bathroom. Then she was trying on MY clothes including my underwear. Then she tipped a glass of water into my daughter's sleeping bag so it was soaked when she got in it as it "was funny". My daughter and one other in tears and after each incident I pointed out it wasn't behaviour I expect in my house.

I called her mum at 10pm and told her to come and get her as I wasn't having any more of it, to which her mum replied along the lines of yes she is a real handful and really won't do anything she's told but she was hoping for a night off and had had a drink so couldn't possibly come and get her. So I got said child, put her in the car and drove her home where she was deposited in the safe care of her open mouthed mother who couldn't believe I had bought her home.

Kids will be kids and everyone parents differently and there have been many instances where I have to bite my tongue (scooters in supermarkets is one!!), but when that behaviour is disrespectful to others and the parents refuse to address it, that's where I draw the line.

It gets worse when they are teenagers. I have been amazed to discover that some parents genuinely think it's ok to give alcohol to other's DC when they are underage, let male and female teenagers share a room without any permission from either parent and actively encourage teens from listening to/respecting their parents. I think they are trying to be 'cool' but the teens always see thru it and think they are a try hard dickhead. I find it very frustrating!

And I absolutely agree that the ops children will be equally frustrating for other adults when she’s not there.

What age of teenager? You know they are adults at 18?

I am guessing these are the same children who are allowed in supermarkets to take toys of the shelf to play with on the way round. I am left feeling angry and frustrated when I have to put toys in the waste or massively reduce them so they can be sold coz little Jimmy just wants to hold the teddy/doll/toy whilst shopping then said toy is covered in baby spit, sticky sweets and god know what else and left on the counter or those that think its ok to get down trikes or ride on and let little jimmy scoot round the store bashing ankles then leave said toy on counter again unsaleable due to the dirt. Some days I have to walk away because of this. My own children never took toys from the shelf in store unless they where buying and never got to ride round the store on toys ment for sale I just don't understand how parents think this is ok

Pork flute - I’m not sure you’re right there actually. They are drilled on manners and their friends’ parents are always very complementary on their behaviour as is their school. Wouldn’t have mentioned that that but for your comment but it’s true. They are frustrating in many ways as a parent for sure, but they know how to behave as a guest and a pupil and wouldn’t dream of doing any of the things listed in my OP. When they test the boundaries it’s at home, where it should be.

Hear hear to you Zodlebud - i might have to start getting tough like that.

Zzzz - not suggesting identical rules or lifestyles at all. Just that there is a basic minimum that all parenting styles ought to include. No parent would let their kids run into the road in front of an oncoming car. Similarly I don’t think any children should be brought up to think it’s ok to be rude to an adult (or indeed anyone but let’s set the bar low). Everything I’m talking about flows from the basic principle of good manners. They will be required to adopt this at school and teachers and other parents will just think your child is horrible if they don’t. Why would you want that for your child?

The unlimited screen time/tv/crap food etc I would happily accept as lifestyle choices if the children just had some fucking manners.

Whilst I probably have the same parenting ethos as you, I wouldn't want myself or my DC to spend time with someone so judgemental.

Radio, I wish I didn’t have so many opportunities to judge in my every day life. If it were one or two of my kids friends it would be different but the fact that it’s the majority of kids and parents who i come into contact with which tips me into ranting mode. We live in a lefty liberal place which perhaps explains this.

In real life I keep it to myself but it does feel good both to be able to vent but also to know that I’m not alone and other people are similarly frustrated with our lax parenting epidemic.