About other people’s children

[Curiousaboutchoices]

I sometimes feel like I am the only ‘strict’ parent around. We are surrounded by lovely people but many are what I would describe as permissive parents. This goes from the very extreme ‘Jane is just experimenting with gravity ’ when 3 year old Jane was deliberately throwing breakable items down a set of stairs, to a milder version whereby people consistently let their kids speak rudely, interrupt, scream and shout if they are ignored or don’t get their own way. Behaviour such as taking toys off another child, ignoring instructions/requests, being rude are often laughed at. Lots don’t restrict tv, screens or gaming, let their kids eat loads of sweets and chocolate in between meals, let their kids get up and down from the table, go to bed when they like, or put their kids to bed and then do nothing when they get back up again. This all makes play dates and sleepovers incredibly hard when all this is acceptable behaviour at home but not in my house.

No one would think it acceptable for an adult to behave like this. If I was unable to go out for dinner without getting up and wandering around people would think I was a little odd. I’m not talking toddlers, I’m talking KS1 and 2. And it’s a lot of the visitors to my house, not a small minority.

I can hear people saying already ‘not your kids, not your business’, which is right, but what these parents create is kids who are incredibly hard work outside the home. When kids stay over or come to play they are unable to cope with an adult not responding to their whims immediately, find it odd that I tell them not to help themselves my food cupboards or go into my bedroom, don’t like being told they have to sit still at a table to eat and can’t get up and down, etc.

Is this a nationwide modern phenomenon now, that children can do what they like or am I just living in a weird bubble?

Children generally only attend specialist schools and mainstream units if their needs cannot be met in mainstream. These schools and specialist units cost a huge amount more than a mainstream placement and no county could afford to place all children with SEND in them. That's why parents have to fight for the places.

I didn't say that the teacher wouldn't be able to recognise SEND or meet the needs of a child with SEND. I said she will not have received the training that enables her to make a judgement as to whether any particular child has autism for example.

Teachers do highlight additional needs if they are ethical and able to recognise them. Teachers also miss them. Sadly, some teachers deny them, even when properly trained clinicians have diagnosed them. It may be that your friend is one of the teachers who refuses to recognise children's additional needs and puts all issues down to the child being lazy, naughty or having bad parents.

Whatever the reason she thinks it. It is inappropriate for a teacher to form that view that no child in her class has additional needs of any sort, never mind share that view with one of the parents.

I was close friends with several of the teachers in my DDs' first school, to the point that we regularly spent days together, went camping together as a group and our children are all still firm friends. Not once did any of them feel it was appropriate to share that sort of information with me about other pupils and I'm very glad of that. I would rather my children's teachers were able to maintain the confidentiality of all of the children in their care, including my own.

Not once did any of them feel it was appropriate to share that sort of information with me about other pupils and I'm very glad of that. I would rather my children's teachers were able to maintain the confidentiality of all of the children in their care, including my own

Seriously, get a life. You all sound so happy, bunch of moaning minnies, you sound utterly miserable with life.

Perhaps what you are trying to say is there are none that you know of? I take it of course there are no children who come from broken homes, backgrounds of domestic violence, poverty, pre-birth illness in mother, difficult birth, bereavement, or who are adopted or fostered and will therefore most likely be suffering from developmental trauma or attachment disorders? Or who have a yet undiagnosed condition?,

Also, I really don't understand how a teacher would know such personal information about students' potential diagnoses or referrals since this is confidential information. My children's school were not aware until we received a letter from the paediatrician and informed them. Given that this teacher seems happy to discuss details regarding pupils with all and sundry, I would think it was a good thing such processes are kept confidential by the parents.

My house, my rules. I have close friends who don’t bat an eyelid if I tell off their kids, and vice versa. I’ve worked with children in a school environment and also nurseries and after school activities so I naturally tell children off if they are around me and blatantly misbehaving. Although my friends and family are more or less on my wavelength, I’m still by far the strictest parent I know. My stepdad complains about how strict I am but I just pointed out the reason they can take my kids anywhere and know they will behave is because I’m so strict. My kids sat and are a three course meal at a restraint at 2 and 4 years old with no screens to entertain them simply because I demand good behaviour.

And you don't know for a fact that they DO have SN or will have SN. I live in Ireland, not Britain. I'll say it one more time and them I'm out of this thread. Most children who I know with SN, go to SN schools or mainstream school with SN units attached this quite obviously reduces the number of children with SN in mainstream classes. I don't know how it works in other counties in this country but that's the way it is here in my county OK? I have no idea why you are all hounding me and insisting that I'm wrong.

Yeah, I'm a teacher in Ireland. This absolutely isn't true. Most primary classes will have someone with sn, and special schools are extremely hard to get into. Why do you think Resource Teachers exist?

I work as a children’s shoe fitter
I would say only 1 in 20 children behave and respect their parents
Most children rule the roost, mess around, don’t listen, have appalling behaviour, interrupt adults, have tantrums and sulk, run/scooter/heely around the shop, touch everything
I find it embarrassing, my children would never behave the way they do (they are all young adults now 20-25)
Most parents make a half arsed attempt at “no don’t do that” “listen to the lady” “stop being silly” in a pathetic tone of voice which is then ignored by the child
There’s no class divide, I would say the same ratio of badly behaved kids,
It makes me worried for 10 years time when these mollycoddled children become young adults who believe they can have what they want when they want and do as they please

I was brought up pretty strict being one of five and I am similar with my 4 dc. I hate rudeness so they were taught to say please and thank you etc early on. Bed times are bed times, meal times are meal times and I do not accept being spoken back to or speaking back to any adult.

In the same breath, I pick my battles. There are certain things that bother me as a parent more than other things and I won't be on their case constantly.

I will quite happily jump in puddles, roll down hills, climb trees, try do headstands with them, I believe children should be allowed to be children and to me that means get dirty, sometimes eat rubbish, sometimes have the occasional later night.

I also believe in explaining actions to children. I never ever say 'because I said so' or other such words, I tell them why I am doing or saying something and I will also apologise when in the wrong.

I usually have a houseful of kids with friends and sleepovers, I have no problems telling another child when they are doing something I don't find acceptable and don't really have many issues now.

I would be happy for another parent to correct my children in their own home too.

I do think there is a lot of passive parenting these days, it's not for me but generally if it's not affecting me and mine, I tolerate it as that parents choice in how they raise their child. None of us have guidebooks

curious you are rather fixated on the eating at the table thing whereas this one really does come down to preference, doesn't it, since it's not harming anyone? So it's quite possible these children don't get asked to stay at the table at home and struggle to remember it's a big deal at your house. I also think that you pick your battles and some children are easier than others to instill rules in. Yours might accept authority quite easily, whereas others are still learning. It doesn't all come down to your amazing parenting - I have 2 very different DDs and my experience of parenting them is very different.

" I do not accept being spoken back to or speaking back to any adult." This also is down to preference. I don't accept rudeness, but I don't see that "speaking back" is necessarily rude. I don't think my dds would understand that either.

For me, speaking back is answering sarcastically perhaps or cheekily. Yes absolutely adults can to children too.

"Speaking back" is about the tone of voice.

"Moderate your tone" was often said to me by my parents and I say it to my children.

I won't put up with being answered back (by which I mean argued with), spoken to disrespectfully or ignored. I'm a teacher and see some kids speaking to their parents in ways that i wouldn't tolerate at school or at home. Basic respect for others is absolutely vital.

My child went to a nanny service on holiday and I was told he was the politest, most pleasant child they'd had all season. I swelled with pride

I don't know if 'speaking back' is a term used in my location but yes that is what I mean. A rude tone.

My DS has a friend who always wants to sleep over. The child is 8 and has NEVER been to sleep before 10pm
His parents are both really nice. They just shrug and say he's always been like this.
My DS can't cope the next day if he's stayed over. He's ALWAYS asking if he can stay over.
He's also really bad at saying please & thank you. And he moans about stuff all the time,
I try not to show it as I feel bad feeling this way about such a good friend of my DS. And I know he's just a child. But he's so unenthusiastic about everything. It's REALLY not endearing 😬

When I was a child you'd get told off for "speaking back" which meant any kind of questioning of the authority figure. I don't tell my dds off for asking why they have to do something or saying they think something is unfair, as long as they do it politely. Sarcasm or cheekiness is different. I don't know where I'd put "arguing". I don't mind her expressing a different opinion sometimes tell her "I'm your parent and it's my job to teach you how to act so I'm afraid you don't get a choice".

OP, I've been thinking about this and I wondered if, instead of berating other parents for having badly brought up DC you could share any of your tips for maintaining discipline? My children are younger than the ones you mention and each has a different temperament, but I do struggle with getting the eldest to do as she's told. What do you do if your children do something you disapprove of, like getting down from the table or ignoring what you ask? I find everything can escalate really quickly in our house if I'm being ignored and I don't really want to resort to threats over every minor incident. I do maintain though that some children just do respond more easily to authority - my eldest's teachers have been commenting on how difficult it is to externally motivate my dd with rewards and punishments since she was 1 year old.

No one is demanding that zzzzz

My DD is generally easygoing so of course it's easier. I find that clear expectations and complete consistency usually results in her doing what's she's asked. If she doesn't do it, for instance getting down from the table without asking, a reminder is usually enough.

If the reminder sparks off a tantrum then she's usually tired or ill in which case she's dealt with appropriately eg she is put to bed or offered quiet time.

For things like tidying up her mess I usually help as long as she does most (the threat of doing on her own in enough to get her motivated). If she's still being awkward I usually threaten that everything I "tidy" will be put on a high shelf for a couple of days. That usually results in her running around throwing things back in boxes. Having baskets where everything can be tidied away easily also helps.

That's just one example

Trick here is to learn what matters and what doesn't. Don't put up with things that actually harm property or people or seriously inconvenience yourself or your children, but don't waste energy speculating on how different bedtimes or table manners are going to ruin somebody else's child forever.

For one thing, you may be surprised.

Out of my own circle, the two boys (separate families) whom I really thought were set to grow up into the most horrendously selfish and incapable monsters are actually delightful young men: considerate, hardworking and with a wide range of life skills. Any parent would be proud of them: I am proud just to know them.

I don't think we do anything very differently then. But there's a response in between doing as you're told and tantrumming - it generally involves not responding or saying "just a minute", or "I'm just doing x, y, z" or doing the thing you've asked her not to do "hang on a minute before you tip that...oh, you just tipped it".