About other people’s children

[Curiousaboutchoices]

I sometimes feel like I am the only ‘strict’ parent around. We are surrounded by lovely people but many are what I would describe as permissive parents. This goes from the very extreme ‘Jane is just experimenting with gravity ’ when 3 year old Jane was deliberately throwing breakable items down a set of stairs, to a milder version whereby people consistently let their kids speak rudely, interrupt, scream and shout if they are ignored or don’t get their own way. Behaviour such as taking toys off another child, ignoring instructions/requests, being rude are often laughed at. Lots don’t restrict tv, screens or gaming, let their kids eat loads of sweets and chocolate in between meals, let their kids get up and down from the table, go to bed when they like, or put their kids to bed and then do nothing when they get back up again. This all makes play dates and sleepovers incredibly hard when all this is acceptable behaviour at home but not in my house.

No one would think it acceptable for an adult to behave like this. If I was unable to go out for dinner without getting up and wandering around people would think I was a little odd. I’m not talking toddlers, I’m talking KS1 and 2. And it’s a lot of the visitors to my house, not a small minority.

I can hear people saying already ‘not your kids, not your business’, which is right, but what these parents create is kids who are incredibly hard work outside the home. When kids stay over or come to play they are unable to cope with an adult not responding to their whims immediately, find it odd that I tell them not to help themselves my food cupboards or go into my bedroom, don’t like being told they have to sit still at a table to eat and can’t get up and down, etc.

Is this a nationwide modern phenomenon now, that children can do what they like or am I just living in a weird bubble?

It is natural to enjoy that kind of company. So called 'well behaved' behaviour in children is not natural. If you think of what natural actually means.

God forbid one of your little humans doesn't fit right into your box and take 'a bit longer to learn'.

Thistle I've just read that out to DD and I think she's reassured that she now knows what to do. Thanks. 😀

Smoke reread the OP. She was quite clear what kind of behaviour she was talking about: jumping on furniture; deliberate destruction;ack of basic manners etc.

Weren't einstein and Churchill naughty children

Smoken I’m not sure you’re actually reading anything I write? Read the whole thread, or at least my posts, before you accuse me of things I’ve already covered or ask questions I’ve already answered.

I read it as she was feeling a little alone in her parenting views and looking for some common ground

OP, the things you mention such as good manners, boundaries around watching tv/screens, eating chocolate, not allowing rudeness and so on are really not that unusual. The vast majority of parents put these in place, certainly the ones I have come across anyway.

Are you really saying the majority of your friends' children behave badly and the parents do nothing? That seems very unlikely.

Thistle i think you and I would get on

Dancer - as previously confirmed, yes most of my kids friends have bad manners or behave like the world revolves around them. Not all but many. Bad luck or an epidemic was the whole point of my OP but what on earth would be the point of me making it up? What a silly accusation.

I didn't mean you were making it up curious but perhaps a slight exaggeration about the ones that do. Maybe you need some new friends?!

I don't think your making it up but your view may be slightly distorted from so high up!

Also, I disagree that behaviour is all down to parenting. Personality plays a part. My older two dds were easy to parent, they were generally well behaved as young children with no issues. However, dd3 (brought up exactly the same way) is a different kettle of fish. Her behaviour is a work in progress. However, she behaves beautifully at school and at other people's houses so not all is lost.

Weren't einstein and Churchill naughty children?
I read that they were both difficult adults to be around too!

Dancer as I said in my OP, I have lovely friends, but most of them just don’t parent. But yes, maybe I need to extend my circles to find more like minded people or at least limit the contact that I and my kids have with these kind of people. For sanity’s sake.

But yes, it would seem that I am surrounded by a local population of badly behaved kids and hapless parents. I was in an assembly today where the head teacher had to ask the parents of about 15 small (pre school) children to stop their kids running around and spoiling it for everyone else. Yes 15, not one or two. Most parents with pre schoolers in tow. All obviously thought it was ok before the head stepped in. Sounds like I am in an unlucky bubble which frankly is very comforting but it is genuinely enough to drive you wild with anger and indignation.

It 'Drives you wild with anger and indignation' -
Really?! Sounds like you may have anger management issues

For those of you with very well-behaved children in terms of table manners etc - what happens when your kids don't follow your rules? Honest question. Am struggling to get my 3 year old to improve on some of these areas atm.

Tbh I think if you want to be an employable young person you need to have been brought up to understand that you are not by any stretch of the imagination always right, that you do as you are told by people more senior than you, that you stick at things even if they are boring, you turn up on time and stay all day and that your personal manners and hygiene don't disgust people.
That's what I try to teach my robots!

'Most of my friends just don't parent'. You mean they don't parent in the same way as you do. Being controlling and demanding doesn't equal parenting. And FIFTEEN kids running around (like kids do because they are full of energy and want to explore and have fun)- shock horror. This thread is amusing but I'm not going to comment anymore as I feel it's going nowhere and is just becoming a place for us to insult one and other.

A little - they mess around, they get one warning and then it’s get down. No more dinner. No discussion. It will only last 2/3 meals before hunger wins over will. You’d have to explain what the new mealtime rules are first and allow discussion on it of course. No snacking in between though obvioisky or it somewhat defeats the purpose. Maybe a sticker chart for a good meal? No shouting, no anger, just action.

Lethal - if that many parents don’t give a shit that their toddler child is being so loud and disruptive that you can’t hear the school children reading out their poems or presenting their assembly then yes it drives me wild and yes it makes me worry for society in general. That you wouldn’t be angered by this shows that there is a real problem in parenting at the moment.

Smoken - you really think it’s ok for a gaggle of pre schoolers to run amock in an assembly presented by the kids for the parents? Really? I’m genuinely flabbergasted. Hapless is one thing but completely blind to the effect of your offspring on the rest of the world is another thing entirely - it’s wilful.

I would love to see you back on here when your dc are in their late teens and you're complaining about them rebelling because they haven't been allowed to breathe their whole lives!!
Honestly though, have you heard yourself? Unless you are 'the perfect parent' you have no room to criticise other people's parenting so I should just get yourself down from the very high horse of yours.

God forbid one of your little humans doesn't fit right into your box and take 'a bit longer to learn'

I don't think the OP has a problem with children taking a while to learn something.

The issue arises when the parents aren't even bothering to try to teach them.

Children need to be taught what social expectations are in order to be able to meet them as they grow up.

When little Eddie is expressing himself by taking a crayon to the wall, he needs an adult to re-direct him to the piece of paper on the table.

Little Olivia thinks it's great fun to run around and jump on the furniture with her shoes on at home but she needs an adult to explain to her that, when you're four, you need to stay sitting down while you're at the coffee shop so you don't cause an accident or irritate the other customers.

If Jake's mother bends to his every wish and whim in order to avoid tantrums when he's two, he's going to get quite a shock when he starts pre-school and the adults there don't.

Children aren't born with a full set of adult social skills. They need someone the teach them. Those whose parents don't teach them to take the needs of others into account or what the social norms are for a child of their age, have to learn from other children and that can be quite a brutal process.

Do people genuinely think that teaching children social skills is turning them into robots or stifling their creativity in some way?

alittlehelp at three years old you have to work in the basis that good table manners are going to be a work in progress.

Different things work for different children, I absolutely agree with Dancer above that personality plays a part, children are not blank slates upon which we practice our parenting.

What worked for us (with two very different children) was clear rule and boundaries, modelling expected behaviour by parents/family, lots of repetition and if necessary consequences for poor behaviour.

I’m a fan of explaining rules so that children can see the logic behind them. Eg “we don’t shout out in cafes because all these nice ladies and gentlemen don’t want to have their conversations interrupted” or “we don’t run around in restaurants because we might get in the way of the staff carrying hot things or sharp things and we might get hurt or hurt someone else”.

For meal times at home, expectations like saying please and thank you or asking to be excused from the table just take repetition, praise and again modelling by adults.

There no magic ticket, and they won’t get it right every time. Good manners are (eventually) just ingrained and they do it even if you aren’t there.

rebelling because they haven't been allowed to breathe their whole lives!!

Strawberry I have absolutely no idea what my kids will be like a teenagers, either way I’ll have to parent according to their needs.

But I do feel the need to point out the false premise in your post. Why does well behaved mean “never allowed to breathe”?

My kids love their lives! They are happy, interesting little people. They have lots of freedom to explore, challenge and exercise their personalities. I just expect them to do that while being considerate to others.

Very laid back parenting doesn’t necessarily equal happier child. On occasion quite the opposite.

My children are really happy, they have plenty of room to breathe.

I'm not going to lie, this post got my back up!!
I too have very well behaved dc but the way that curious put it makes her sound like a mother from the dark ages where children should be seen and not heard.
What gives others the right to say how we should be bringing up our children?
My dc knows the difference between right and wrong, has great use of manners etc etc but I wouldn't dream of telling somebody that they've done it all wrong because their children doesn't. I know parents who have 2+dc and the dc are very different, one is impeccably behaved whereas the other likes to push the boundaries yet they have been brought up exactly the same.
Everybody is different and everybody does things differently in all aspects of life, just because somebody is doing something different to you doesn't mean they're doing it wrong.