To be a bit annoyed with friend but still feel sad for her?

[AllThePlants]

Let me preface by saying that I totally get that infertility is an awful rollercoaster. By contrast, we conceived DD on our first try, DS on our second try. I am lucky. One of my closest friends has been TTC for 4 years and has only just got round to the IVF referral but I understand that she’s been having pretty constant treatments and some surgery too. I don’t like to ask too much but it can’t be too dire if she hasn’t been having IVF but I could be mistaken. She’s also said she’s not willing to adopt either so guess she’s pinning her hopes on the treatment working.

For about the past 18 months she has gone quite silent on me. She used to be a very supportive friend but I now feel like she shows no interest in my life or kids. I know it’s trivial but she never likes any of OMG pics on Instagram or enquiries about them beyond the basic “how are you all?” Via text.

I guess I miss her but AIBU to feel
Slightly resentful though? I just feel like when she has her baby I won’t be able to just start pretending she’s shown little interest in my kids. I know that makes me sound awful. Her life is otherwise good, lovely husband and they have a fair amount of money (which I’m not jealous of but just for context). She’s got a lot going for her I just wish she didn’t make me feel bad just for having kids.

I am really shocked by your post OP and if you are anything like this in real life no wonder she has withdrawn from you.
I hope to God that you didn’t say to her that her miscarriage was a ‘good sign’ that she could get pregnant.

Read about ivf. Fix a date. Meet her alone and let her choose whether she wants to chat about it. She might not.

Sorry cross-posted. I wouldn’t do anything OP, let her go for now. She’s going through something for which she doesn’t need or want your input (so it seems). It doesn’t mean she doesn’t value you, just that you’re not the right person for the job.

In OP’s defence, I’m not sure people who haven’t been through infertility/miscarriage/whatever it is meaning you can’t have kids, just don’t get it. I do think that suffering those things makes you a more empathetic person.

OP, this isn’t about you specifically, it’s about loss, the loss of your friends hopes and dreams. After I suffered a MC in August (and I’m 39 no kids) I unfollowed everyone with kids on FB, even my best friend. I just could not bring myself to see other people’s kids/baby announcements. Not because I am not interested or happy for them or wish they didn’t have kids, but because it reinforced my feelings of loss. I had to do this for self preservation. Some of my friends just don’t understand.

She needs your support, not your getting upset because she doesn’t “like” your posts (which is childish in the extreme). Maybe you need to speak with someone at an infertility charity to try to understand how your friend is feeling and how best you can help her.

@formerbabe - I'm not saying infertility isn't heartbreaking but it's also not a get out of jail free card for being a disinterested friend.

I agree with you. On mn, infertility seems to excuse all sorts of poor behaviour.

Yes, it's awful. I can certainly understand someone finding it difficult to deal with friends/family being pregnant when they aren't but there are plenty of other situations that are similar. Your example of someone who wants to be in a relationship is, I think comparable. Equally, someone who is suffering from a longterm illness might struggle seeing friends and family doing things they are unable to do.

However, as you say, it's not a get out of jail card for being a disinterested friend. If a friend shows no interest in you or your life, it's reasonable to be hurt and, if it goes on over an extended period, to stop making all the effort.

Let me ask you all a question then - what would YOU do in my position?

Not whinge about how terribly unsupportive she is on a public forum? Not make vague threats about not showing interest in her child, if she is ever lucky enough to have one? Not, in short, be a dick?

YANBU- i can see where you are coming from OP

So, did you just join today to post this?

By god you really dont have a clue do you. So presumably you both started trying at the same time and since then (easily) you have two children.

She has been through a failed IUI attempt, a miscarriage and now finally has gotten to the top of the IVF waiting list and you are still living in a world that she is ok and will get a baby. IVF is the FINAL roll of the dice in order to have a baby of your own once other steps (Clomid, donor sperm etc) have failed. It is dire

Your idea of friendship is she was supportive but show no insight into how difficult it must be for her to show interest in your life when you have children.

Infertility eats you up from the inside like a cancer and is hell. As is having to see friends constantly post pictures of their happy families on instagram and facebook

I dont think you are vile I think you are v self absorbed and I think your idea of supporting your friend has failed her and she has walked away

On mn, infertility seems to excuse all sorts of poor behaviour.

^This

And it's UNinterested. Not DISinterested. Not that there's any proof the OP's 'friend' is either, of course.

What poor behaviour though not liking instagrams posts and not asking beyond how are you is hardly poor behaviour

@AllThePlants have you tried messaging her about something neutral, not repeatedly asking her how treatment is going or how she's coping with things? I was lucky to have successful fertility treatment but then DC had profound issues detected on antenatal scans. I couldn't stand being sent repeated messages asking how things were. I was so grateful to my friends who tried to take my mind off the horrible situation for a few minutes by asking me if I'd seen x show on TV or sending me a silly animal video. Everyone's different but maybe she just doesn't want to keep thinking about it or talk about it with someone who can't possibly understand.

I think you should cut her some slack & try to talk about something else. Don't mention your children or her situation if she clearly doesn't want to talk about it. If you think she might appreciate a day out, why not ask her to do something nice without your children & make it clear they won't be there?

One of my best friends is going through what your friend is ( although she may adopt in the future).
I have secondary infertility, which does cause me pain BUT compared to her, I am very lucky. She has an amazing job and is beautiful, but what she wants most in the world is to be a mother. Actually she has been a lovely "auntie" to my son, but often I don't talk about him, or "parenty" things at all with her, as I am aware of how much she wants what I have.
When/if she finally succeeds and has a child I will throw a fucking party. Seriously, you need to pull your head right out of your arse and grow some empathy.

I’m sorry but you have absolutely no idea of what the fertility journey is or what is or isn’t ‘too dire’
There are plenty of reasons why you wouldn’t have IVF to start with but start with surgeries etc... endometriosis can be one of them for example. That, in itself, would be a major reason for infertility. PCOS is another (have a look at ovarian drilling). Plus the use of clomid.

The inserting her DH sperm is an IUI (Intra utérine insemination - basically helping the sperm to get closer to the egg around ovulation time), it has absolutely nothing to do with IVF where you stimulate the ovaries to Collect eggs and then fertilise them out of the body.

None of that has any relationship at all about how serious her infertility is. Barring in mind that a lot of infertility are ‘unexplained’ which means that consultants have no f* idea of what’s going on, not that there is no reason why that couple can’t get pregnant.

I think you really need to educate yourself about fertility treatment tbh and how hard they can be both on the body and emotionally.
Your friend isn’t blocking you out and in particular isn’t avoiding your dcs (and daring showing no interest in them because we all know they are the most important thing in the world, don’t we?).
She is dealing with a hell of lot emotionally and is probably emotionally exhausted. She needs your support, not your judgement or you pulling back.

I can only assume you’ve posted to provoke a reaction.
Surely no one can be so unaware, insensitive & self obsessed.
Your poor friend, she would be better off if you ‘dropped’ her

I'm going to try and stay calm and reasonable here OP.

You may feel as though you have been understanding and supportive, but you have no idea what she's going through. If I could explain infertility to you I would, but the best I can do is say that it is that is hurts, physically, emotionally, psychologically and financially. You pin hopes on having a family, the treatments cause havoc with your hormones, the devastation when it doesn't work is indescribable. It tests you in a way not many other things do.

And then you watch your family members, colleagues and friends get pregnant 'easily' and you stick a smile on and say congratulations while you want to cry. It makes you angry, because there is no answer to "why won't this happen for me?"

People comment and ask if you're trying / do you want children and offer trite platitudes like "relax and it'll happen" and continuously ask how it's going, and you have nothing to tell them, because the medications take time to work, the referrals are really fucking slow and deep down you know they're expecting you to say "oh, it's going well" and move on.

In the end, you don't want to explain the reasons why you have "only just got around to IVF" FFS. Your heart hurts and you realise that actually, some people want too much and you are allowed to do what you need to in terms of self preservation. So you miss some functions / parties where necessary, step back from people if you need to. You spend your money on treats for yourself to cheer yourself up because infertility is shit.

It sounds to me like you want the friend she used to be, you want her to participate in your family life, but for her, it may well be like being surrounded by the thing she wants the most but feels that she will never have. Let her step back, she cannot give you what you want, and it doesn't sound like you can support her in a way that she needs.

FYI, I'm 5 years in to my journey. I have not yet had IVF. I don't want to adopt.
The friends I have kept are the ones that understand, who have researched a little so I don't have to explain to them why I'm waiting / how IVF works etc. And they are definitely not the ones who mention adoption, because that is not a substitute for pregnancy, it's a completely different way of becoming a parent, one that takes a different kind of journey and work, and one that not everyone is suited to. It's not so,etching to go into lightly as a fucking back up plan.

In short, leave your friend alone.

If you and your friend have become less close recently, she has had a lucky escape...

You sound extremely ignorant about IVF and adoption and completed uninterested in your friend’s life. If you really were that close, why on earth haven’t you done a quick google search to learn a little more about IVF (including the low success rates) and the realities of adoption? Now that is what a good friend would do.

A good friend certainly wouldn’t count the number of instagram likes that are received from posts of her children.

A good friend wouldn’t think her friend was a hypocrite if she started paying more attention to her children once she had one of her own. Because a good friend would at least try to understand how incredibly difficult infertility is.

A good friend is empathetic. A good friend doesn’t say things like ‘when she has a child’, but recognises that this might not be true and her friend likely believes that it isn’t.

A good friend wouldn’t winge about her friend not asking after her children specifically, because she would recognise that this is incredibly difficult for her friend to do and her friend is likely trying to block out all thoughts of children as a method of self preservation.

Read over your post again and see how little of it sounds like concern for your friend. It’s mostly about you and what you need.

I went through 4 years of infertility and had 5 IVF cycles. It was the darkest time of my life and I can’t omagine anything darker. At the same time, my Mum battled leukaemia, had several rounds of chemo and a stem cell transplant and came very close to dying on several occasion. I can honestly say that the infertility and IVF was the hardest thing to deal with out of all that. Ask yourself why. Develop a little bit of empathy and give your friend a break.

I honestly can’t believe that someone can be this lacking in emotion, sensitivity and empathy and be this selfish. It’s astoonding

Wow. .

But I think you’ve rather had the message by now. So- In terms of what you can do, if you want to retain this friendship, respectfully give her space.

She clearly seems to need space from you and perhaps others - it’s overwhelmingly heartbreaking to be around people like you who are known to “get pregnant on the first try”. I know it was for me. I used to avoid people where I could and would have to emotionally prep myself to be around them in unavoidable situations and often go off and sob in private during these events.

Give that space to her and when she’s ready, she will perhaps seek you out. You can’t force that moment from your side.

And be really, genuinely thrilled for her if/when she overcomes this and has a child.

HTH

She probably just needs space, it's one of the most destroying things going through what she's going through. I wouldn't take it personally.

She used to be a very supportive friend

Maybe it was your turn to be the supportive friend. And you failed. Hence the 4 years has gone by and you've done very little to be there for her, yet you miss her support.

I think you need to take a hard look at yourself.

Are you serious?! You've conceived with barely any effort and she has been trying to conceive for FOUR YEARS

In that time she will have:

Been heartbroken every month when her periods come, quite probably having hope dashed if she was even a day late

had to FIGHT to get referrals to specialists OR had to pay a not insignificant amount of money to go private

Had to discuss her and her partners sexual activity

been poked and prodded by numerous Drs

You've said yourself she's had to have surgeries (multiple) that's physically and mentally exhausting plus you don't know how successful they were if at all - sometimes it makes things worse!

had to endure numerous blood tests, invasive highly personal procedures and take drugs - possibly having to injection herself several times a day with them - which will have had her hormones going crazy

possibly having mc too in that time and IF at any point she has been pregnant however briefly there's the fear of the loss before it even happens because it's been so hard just to get there! - just seen post that you know she's had AT LEAST one.

dealt with questions and insensitive comments from others including complete strangers

dealing with all her loved ones (not just you) who have been pregnant/becoming parents, wondering if she'll EVER be a mother

HUGE pressure on her relationship

...and YOUR concern is she's not paying enough attention to YOUR DC? Really? And you call yourself her friend?

"she hasn’t had ivf yet (I don’t think) so I assume her situation can’t be too much of a write off." Bloody hell! You CANNOT possibly know that AND Ivf has very low success rates (I think around 26%?) AND it isn't suitable for all issues relating to fertility - it's not a bloody cure! At 33 her fertility will be declining even more which will ALSO be a major worry for her, at 35 it declines quite sharply.

Every post makes you sound even LESS sympathetic and supportive.

As someone who's lost 3 babies myself I hope to god you DIDN'T say to her after her mc that "oh well at least you know you can get pregnant" 😡 I had 2 close friends who were also pregnant at the time - one heavily - and initially I spoke with them on the phone but I didn't see them for a while - one had experienced mc herself, one popped out babies like peas BOTH were completely understanding and supportive.

"I dearly love her" words are cheap

"and she clearly doesn’t want to see me" I wonder why 🙄

What should you do? Leave her alone, at the very most let her know you're sorry you haven't been more understanding and supportive and you'll be there for her if SHE wishes and if she doesn't wish, respect that.

I second everything IsItI says

I had a five year ttc journey and didn’t see my sister when she was pg because she was pg and I couldn’t cope with it. I also had a close friend fall pg at the same time as I had an ectopic and even now, 8 yrs later, I look at her DD and wonder what our ectopic baby would be like.

Infertility is awful. The treatment is horrible, it messes with your hormones, you feel ill going through it, I had terrible mood swings on Clomid. My husband was in the forces, when we moved my treatment had to start from the very beginning again. Then we moved again and there was no treatment available where he was stationed next...

It was 14 years before I got pregnant. In that time all our nieces and nephews were born. Everyone else in the family (who were together less time than us) had their families and we still hoped. Every time the family got together I was given another baby to hold, and it broke my heart.

I have been incredibly lucky because in the end I got pregnant without going through invasive treatments, a complete and utter surprise, twice!

I knew someone who told me her and her husband had decided to have a family, weeks later she told me they "got pregnant on their first try" and I was amazed that could actually happen!

I'd cut your friend some slack. I'm sure she's happy for you, but it takes time to come to grips with the fact it might not happen for you.

OP, I do wonder if your friend is going the NHS route whether they are maybe making her go through all the lower cost treatment hoops first before they spend a fortune on IVF. We did this but after several years of failures and turning up for the scanner to be broken and all being sent home we went private. I was much older and time was really running out.

IVF is very hard but I think your experience of it is totally coloured by whether it is successful for you or not (just my opinion). Like a terrible birth experience, if your baby is ok you can deal with the trauma much better.

If you truly were once close could you not e-mail her and just say "I miss talking to you and how close we used to be. I wonder if maybe you find it hard to be around me with the kids and, if you do, I completely understand. I just wanted to send a message of support to say that I'm thinking of you, I'm still here for you and just really hope everything works out for you."

You feel that she's ignoring you but maybe she feels you've moved on with your family and she's been left behind. Parenthood is the ultimate exclusive club, or maybe that's just how it feels when we're trying so hard to join.