To be bit upset re how close friend asked for money back?

[Moneyissue2]

Debt one: From last August. Money lent for clothes for a certain type of event. Agreed I’d pay back £50 a month until full £245 covered.
I’ve only paid £150 of this back so far and know this is wrong.

Debt two: £250, friend lent bank card sometime during January when times were particularly tight just after Christmas. No limit on spending and no agreed time frame when to pay back but I had every intention of doing so as soon as I had been told how much I owed. On the 17th feb I was told the amount, £250 and intended to pay on pay day this month.

I spent almost 300 on friend for Christmas and about the same again on my immediate family so was a bit short during jan. Friend really wanted to go on a mini break to which I said no as I simply couldn’t afford it. Friend, for reasons I won’t go into really wanted to go it was a celebration of a major happening in his life. He insisted we went and that he would pay. (This is a story in itself, I really did say no numerous times and we even argued as I really, really didn’t want to go)

This expense included paying for my passport to which I agreed to pay back. This was a lot as was a same day turn around. Obviously my passport, my expense, but I did agree to paying more for something when what I would’ve done was simply waited until travel was completely necessary or when I could have afforded to renew. On this two night trip friend spent just under £100 on food and drink and even though he had insisted on paying for everything I did pay for an activity for myself that we did together which was just under a hundred. When I paid for this he did say are you sure you can afford it and I said yes but it will mean I can’t give you any of what I owe you this month.

Due to other business travel arrangements we have not seen or heard from each other a great deal recently and out of the blue I receive a message saying “please can you pay back the £250 bank card debt and £130 passport fee”.
To which I answered “no, actually, I can’t. Do you think I have a spare £380”?
His reply “it’s been two months, and you still haven’t paid last years debt”

AIBU to be hurt that he is making me out to be a terrible bad debt person when he only told me mid feb how much I owed on the bank card and it was only payday yesterday. He also knows how much I earn and that I cannot afford the bank debt and passport in the same month.

There is a huge back storey that I won’t go into as I wanted advice without that swaying people’s opinions.

What use is the advice we give if you know there is information that would change our advice but you won't let us know that information?

Oh for gods sake, are you actually for real?
Pay the money you owe back and stop borrowing off your friends and accumulating one debt on top of another!

You actually bought him a Christmas present with his money when you think about it.

What on earth is going on here? How are you friends with this person?

Reading this was shocking to me. How on earth could you square spending so much money on presents when you were already in debt? That was CF territory. As is not keeping a track of the money you spent on his bank card. And also being shocked that the person you have owed money to for over 6 months is asking for it back.

You are clearly not disciplined with money but I think you need to start being responsible. Give your friend whatever you can afford right now and then pay him as much as you can every payday from now on until the debt is cleared. Don't put him the the position of having to come to you and ask for it. Go without nice things for a while, live on beans and lentil soup until you get straight.

And whatever you do, don't get a payday loan. If you can get into this sort of mess with an interest free loan with no late payment penalties, God knows where you'd end up with a payday loan.

YABU. People like you really annoy me as no-one should have to chase anyone for money that they owe. I have been stung like this in the past so now I don’t lend money.

Why are you spending £300 on a sugar daddy and he gets you nothing?

He’s not a friend at all is he?

OP he's an abuser. And you sound codependent somehow. Pay the money back, block his number, remove him from your life entirely and get some counselling to stop you getting into this sort of relationship again.

Oh and the I suspect the backstory is very relevant.

Okay so my app crashed earlier and I posted without reading OPs other posts. Sorry.

On reading them I've completely changed my mind and hes the unreasonable one. He has encouraged you to borrow off him, encouraged ... no actually insisted you do things you cant afford. All of the money you owe him is from trying to keep up/fit in with him.
He has known you cant afford it yet has reeled you in and now is calling in his debts at the drop of a hat.
You've had an awful year with him.
Pay him for the passport, and the food etc.
Anything he bought you - send it bacj. Anything you bought to keep up with him send it bacj ie. The dress.

Cut him completely out of your life. He sounds v.v v. Controlling.

I once meet a bloke at holiday resort I was working at who was very well off, and I watched him use money to control people as a stupid and nasty game.

E.g. he would invite people to join him for lunch, or dinner, clearly saying it was his treat. Then he'd make a big drama out of getting his credit card out, saying 'Oh don't worry everyone, I'll get this seeing as no-one else can really afford it'.

He was an absolute knob. And very persistent with the invitations.

Last I remember, he was trying to persuade some young women to upgrade their hotel, and he'd 'take care of it'. He really wasn't taking no for an answer. Behind their backs he was implying to other people he was shagging them (he wasn't).

These insidious people do exist.

“Neither a borrower or a lender be, for loan oft loses both itself and friend.”

Obviously I don't know the back story but I think it may be relevant because the dynamic of your relationship with him has definitely fed into what's happened. It sounds as though he pressures you to spend money that you don't have and then you're endebted to him.

You need to pay him back as a matter of priority.

But you also need to call time on this 'friendship' too. Become unavailable when he needs you to accompany him to places.

He sounds like a manipulative git while you sound like an irresponsible fool. Sorry to be harsh. Who the fuck spends £300 on a friend’s Christmas present when they already owe money but someone with no common sense or perspective? Who the fuck gives their pal their bank card to play with except an idiot or someone who hopes to manipulate?

You both sound self entitled and immature with no financial sense whatsoever. Pay him back and grow up.

I once had a manipulative, calculating flatmate who things ended on bad terms with. I remember him wanting me to go out drinking with him while I couldn’t afford it. He insisted on lending me £20 to go out, knowing I had other priorities...ie rent and bills to pay. The next day he asked for the £20 back knowing full well I didn’t have it...making me feel terrible.
I clocked him for an arsehole there and then and was impervious to his conniving and control thereafter, which he hated my guts for. If I never see that fucker again it will be too soon.
People who use money to control others are shit.

Best case scenario is that this friend is much wealthier than the OP and what normal people on low to moderate incomes can afford and usually spend day to day is simply not on his radar.

Therefore he thinks nothing of £300 presents, or new outfits or minibreaks on a whim and has no concept of budgeting or not being able to afford everything at the drop of a hat.

Or it could be the case that he is manipulative, abusive, etc. OP, if you like him and think it could be the former, talk to him, or if there is any hint that it is the latter, then run, run fast .

It's all money owed to keep him happy. Learn from this op.

Right - here is the Nationwide Budget Calculator:
www.nationwide.co.uk/support/support-articles/manage-your-account/budget-calculator

It will help you sit down and work out exactly where your money is going, how much you can afford to spend on what. Then sit down with your friend and go through it. Work out between you how much you can afford to pay him back and explain that you can't afford to buy him expensive presents, expensive clothes or go on expensive trips. You owe him hundreds of pounds and he may not understand what your finances look like, so you need to demonstrate to him that you 1) don't have the £625 lying around and 2) want to pay it back to him as soon as you can. Setting up a standing order is a great idea, as is not borrowing any more money. If you need a loan, ask a bank like the rest of us.

I think you need to get a grip on your spending. You had no money to pay back the £95 you still owed, but you went mad round town with someone else's bank card, and didn'the even try to keep rough track of what you spent? Then you borrowed more money again?

"I did pay for an activity for myself that we did together which was just under a hundred. When I paid for this he did say are you sure you can afford it and I said yes but it will mean I can’t give you any of what I owe you this month."

You put doing an activity you wanted to do, before paying back what you owe?

"and out of the blue I receive a message saying “please can you pay back the £250 bank card debt and £130 passport fee”.
To which I answered “no, actually, I can’t."

How was the message out of the blue? Did you think if you didn't mention it for long enough, he would forget? Your knew you had to sort out some plan for paying him back? "Do you think I have a spare £380?"

I'm sorry but you sound like an entitled brat.

Yes, this is definitely a control thing on the part of the friend. Those of you who are whining about the evils of borrowing money and spending it frivolously, please bear in mind that this is not the standard CF story of someone who is constantly borrowing money off friends and family for food/bills/DC school shoes while showing off their new clothes/toys/nights out on social media. It sounds like the only reason OP borrowed money from this man in the first place was because he pressured her to do so and implied he wasn't too fussed about getting it back. Then, when she didn't repay it all, his response was to bully her into accepting more loans from him. The average person, who resents the CF friend who is always asking for money, does not behave like that.

Why are you spending £300 on a sugar daddy and he gets you nothing?

Because he knew he wasn't going to see the money again? She gets something out of the act of giving? Isn't this all about power?

What a strange relationship. Pay back the 250 today as planned. Pay back the rest as soon as you can. Find new friends.

Yes he sounds manipulative, many people are. Especially lonely people. I often used to get friends on higher incomes, trying to get me to spend money I didn't have, or offering to lend me amounts I knew I could never pay back, lot's of "but please no one else I know likes that band", etc. My mate wanted to go to a concert, tickets £80, pay my half of taxi's to and from and drinks and stuff, which could quickly rise to owing over £150+ for one night out. I also knew she wouldn't think of the overall cost, until it had been spent, and she twigged she was £300+ down and suddenly skint. While I would still have enough cash to last.

You have to learn to say no to anything you can't afford and don't need. Neither a lender nor a borrower be! People can get very strange and bitter over loosing money, it was their idea to spend in the first place. If the money's for something essential like electric or food, and it's paid back promptly, that's different.

YABU to not have repaid the first debt from the summer.
And imo YABU to have spent so much in a Christmas present!

But your friend does sound manipulative. You dint pressure someone to go away on hols with you, say you are going to pay and then Throw it back at you! Nor do you push someone into doing something that you KNOW is going to put them heavily in debt.
I would do my best to give him the money back (CC, parents, loan if need be) and then I would cut my loses and distance myself from him tbh.

My namesake would say your friend should only expect to be paid back the first debt as he lent you more before you'd paid back the first

I think the OP is way off using a budget calculator - they need to start with a friend cull first and foremost. Then reflect on what is driving them to have to please other people before taking control of their spending and attitude to debt.

Giving excessive Christmas presents and going on unnecessary holidays when they don't have the money to finance that lifestyle, because they mistakenly believe it will please people is a sign of low self esteem. They need to learn to say "no is a complete sentence" more often.