‘Women who dress like slags cheapen the rest of us’.

[Eltonjohnssyrup]

Said by my mother who is as left wing as Trotsky, a Corbynista and a self identified feminist.

I did say to her at the time that I thought using the word ‘slag’ was wrong. But my sons were there at the time and although two of them are too young to understand I find it worrying they might internalise that kind of thing.

We have a fractious relationship anyway (she used to call me promiscuous as an older teenager because I’d had a snog and a grope). So I don’t want to cause a lot of friction. But I wonder if I should send her an email saying that isn’t acceptable.

Carefully it makes total sense. I did once see myself as radical in my rejection of female stereotyping-this was different to my current rejection of sexually attractive clothing.
But the thing is I want to bloody well get through life at the same time. I don't have the energy day in day out to fight. Choosing to impress men or actively avoiding it are in essence symptoms of the same disease of misogyny. But I on my own cannot change that. So I focus on me and my girl.
As aside, sending an email to your mum seems a bit odd. Either say it or don't. Sounds like she wouldn't change her thinking either way.
I guess I just get sick of the whole giggly Holly Willoughbys of the world and think fuck how can you dress in that giggling like a school girl, if you understand the subjugation and sexualisation of women by men. It just seems a misnomer to me. But yes, by being the polar opposite I am probably reinforcing that stereotype.

It’s a question of choice. Some feel like they have to play the game and dress the part. Your decision but you neither get to expect praise for it or be the judge of others. I cherish the freedom of choice. It can start so innocuous, dressed up as a voluntary choice to fit in. The real issue is though, the question to fit in with whom and why do so many people are so quick to become moral enforcers. It’s a slippery slope and I’m not talking about something so simplistic as following ‘dress code’ in for example an office. But being mindful of the bigger picture. I know of women who wore jeans and miniskirts in the Seventies, their granddaughters are no longer allowed those choices. This is far more than just taste! Prime example to me are the thousands and thousands of women who went on the streets to support the exiled Khomeini. At the time, it felt like a powerful political movement but they also made judgements about the appearance of other women. Like Saturn, the revolution devours its children… I know that this is a bit over dramatic btw but it is crucial that morality and dogma don’t become the bench mark for what is perceived acceptable clothing and appearance in our society. I decided to embark into a field where I can wear what I want not because I am some ‘free spirit’ but because it is a very precious freedom. Oh, and I worked in a very male dominated space for quite some time too. The onus was on the men to not influence my appearance.

Agree with you there Temptress. Interesting post indeed.

I don't judge people on how they dress, but on how they treat others. Your mum was out of order, it is disappointing that some people on here agree with her.
As for women who dress in revealing clothes being sluts, I wore those kind of clothes when I was a virgin and didn't have sex till I was 23, so what a load of crap. Not that there's anything wrong with a woman having as many or as few partners as she so desires. It isn't anyone else's business.

Your mother is a Corbynista and made derogatory comments about "slags" and the way women dress? Not surprised there. Corbyn's Labour is as misogynist as can be.

We all have prejudicial impulses. It is intrinsic to a primate brain that evolved for communities of around 180 individuals, and is forced to use unnuanced sorting tools to interact with greater numbers.

Natural though it may be, from these impulses come xenophobia, sexism and racism. Like may other impulses that we express as children (grabbing instead of asking, hitting instead of talking, yelling instead of listening) we are quite correctly required to suppress them to become adult members of society.

Choosing to embrace these sort of impulses, or refusing to resist them, doesn't just lead to behaviour that impacts negatively on others, but also blinds ourselves and curtails our capacities for self improvement.

Someone turning up 'inappropriately' dressed for a job interview could be a sign of lack of preparation or forethought. It could also be a sign that someone didn't label wet paint, and the candidates appearance at all indicates logistical genius on their part. Allow prejudice to guide you and you will fail them, your company and yourself.

Fuck sake. How can you think it's in any way acceptable to call women 'slags'.

And as far as the 'bitchy cunt' comments, I have never in my life heard a woman calling another woman that. And i doubt that it is a woman saying it now tbh.

It's none of your business what anyone wears OP

Sorry, that was to OP's mother!

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with referring to some women as slags.

My Mum and I have certainly always done this, as have my friends. Some women do look like, and/or act like slags.

Wow, really Could you articulate for me what some women look like, or do, to deserve that tag in the eyes of you and your mother?

Your mum is wrong to refer to other women like that, especially in front of children. If other women choose to behave in a way that you would personally not, it really isn't any of your business as you are not forced to do the same. I don't think it is necessarily important as a feminist to "be nice" about other women, but morally condescending behaviour and snobbery about female promiscuity is just misogyny wrapped up in old fashioned notions of behaviour.
My mum has some very odd views on behaviour and promiscuity/sexuality which I was unfortunately verbally beaten with as a teen. I sometimes warn my dc that some of grannies ideas aren't that modern and to tell me if anything she has said upsets them. You can't change her but you can ask her not to use words like slag.

I agree Stevie, the idea of a mother and daughter sitting together discussing who they think are slags is quite disturbing. And a group of female sitting bitching about ‘slags’ is not much better.

There are some horrible people about.

But 'bitching' is a woman shaming word as well. Men don't sit around bitching do they? Well they do but aren't called bitches.
Men are called bastards but usually within the context of hurting women and it is a phrase used towards men by women.
Why is bitch and slag so different? Both are negative judgements of women.

And everywhere except mumsnet, the word cunt is highly offensive and derogatory.

As a feminist, I object very much to the word cunt being used as a swear word or an insult.

who dye their hair blonde and wear red lipstick and nail varnish, something which I can't take seriously or trust their intelligence.

Because the ones who dye their hair blue and wear black and silver lipstick and nail varnish are just so much more interesting and intelligent, right?

And if men sit round discussing the finer points of how to verbally stab a colleague in the back, it's called politics. If women do it, it's called gossip.

I certainly don't like the way the word cunt was used on the first page of this thread, at another woman in a critical way, but I don't like the way it's the ultimate taboo word for some people as that seems to me to be pouring misogyny into the core of an ultimately female thing. I don't see why cunt has to be so shrouded with shock when dick isn't. But obviously it's difficult to use it in a reclaiming way when lots of dicks use it in an offensive way. Or something.

@gallico
It shows that they aren't adhering to heteronormative behaviour expected of women.
So more interesting they may be. As their views are more likely to be alternative. Bit like that doctor on holby city (-:
Although I know a few alternative people who describe the rest of us as 'straight' (not referring to sexuality), whereas I see alternativism as a natural part of mainstream, destroying their view of themselves as unique . Same with women in their 40s who are hippies. Er no you are too young to have been into the hippy movement. You just don't want to be 'normal'.
Carefully it's a horrible word.

She can't be a feminist if she considers women to be one mass and not individuals. At the very least she has internalized a lot of misogyny and hasn't processed it yet.

Men never EVER say stuff like "Men who ---- cheapen the rest of us". And men rape quite often, and kill quite often, and shoot up schools, etc, etc.

I agree Brendas.
However there isn't one feminism.
There are varying degrees of.
I have a feminist identifying friend whose relationship history is based on seducing men in relationships with other women. So not really a feminist IMO.
I have a very close friend who has a baseline of: we live in a patriarchy, I hate misogyny, women are one, we are a movement, I'm a libber, has a masters in gender etc etc. She does a 180 U Turn when she fancies a (usually much younger) man and becomes a bit of a nymph. Currently I never hear from her. When they separate, she will be all women's rights again.
The problem with feminism is that feminists don't support or question other feminists. They pick and choose the bits they like meaning there is no force. Except for some issues. Trans and self ID is a fabulous example.
But since women and men form most of relationships most heterosexual women do in most aspects of their lives submit to the needs of men. Sexually. Wifework. Childcare. Etc.
You are right about men never saying about 'men who'..... Women are too busy arguing that men 'aren't all like that', or that they are being feminist by dressing sexy, etc.
Basically, using feminism as a justification or excuse for anything and everything, and because of this people laugh at self identified feminists, we have the piss taken in the media because there is no solidarity whatsoever.

I don’t get why anyone cares how many people other people sleep with or how they dress. I literally couldn’t give a shit. In fact some of the funnest people I know are a bit slaggy.

I was called a slag when I got a boyfriend at 18 when a certain relative found out I'd preemptively gone on the pill. She had two daughters, one who got pregnant at 14 and the other at 15.

Some people are unfathomable in their thinking and rude/ignorant/arrogant with it. I think your mum falls into that category. You can't argue with them either, it's like banging your head off a brick wall. All you can do is address it later with DC and teach them the respect you obviously have for people's differences.

Whats this about..women in short dresses with tits n arse on display? Or that women who dress very conservatively couldn't possibly be sleeping around, at all?

Ah, the beauty of being able to decipher a woman's levels of morality (according to who's wearing the judgey pants) solely via the way she dresses.

I now believe that magic truly does exist.

demoralising much?

ThatsWotSheSaid is that a joke?

What does 'a bit slaggy' mean?