AIBU to think that I'll never feel at home here?

[Mornel]

I've been in UK for 7 years now. But I often think that I'm not welcomed here. Me and my DH both are working, my DD1 is in year 8 now and doing brilliantly. My DS2 goes to nursery and does great there as well. So our kids are fully integrated. But I don't have any English friends and that makes me feel on the side of local life. I can't make people like me, but they never expressed any interest in making some kind of friendship. I love this country, here's my home. Just sometimes I feel sad that I'm not the part of this country..

I'm in the UK 13 years, married to a British guy, settled and feeling more at home than I have ever felt in my home country. I do agree though that it's hard to make real friends. On the estate I live people know each other since primary school. They simply don't need any more mates. I quite understand that, I'm an introvert anyway so it don't bother me, but I hope my lb will do better here.

Hi 👋🏻
Also from Ipswich, think this is the first time I’ve actually posted on here!
I’m not sure why all the bad press for Ipswich either, there are definitely worse places!!
If it helps, I’ve lived here all my life and have a very limited amount of friends.
The school gates are the worst! Everyone had their groups, some stem from children going to nursery together, some long standing friends with others added in, I never feel like I can just become part of those groups despite lots of them being acquaintances.
I’m very good at acting confident but really being quite socially awkward, so this might be worth baring in mind when you feel like people are blanking you/being rude.
I also work 5 days a week so don’t have the time for the morning drop off chatter at the gates and by the time I rush from Work to pick them up I need those 5 minutes of peace before it all starts again 😂
The same way you’re scared of getting it wrong when starting new friendships, a lot of us are too.
Have everything crossed that some of the tips on here help, but happy to chat anytime ☺️

Sixteenapples people whose first language is not English may not fully recognise the nuances and subtleties of the English language, I am sure they didn't mean to be offensive.

Mornel - I understand and given where you live I think it may be regional. I never got asked where I was from when I lived in London and the second I went out in the sticks people ask and also assume things about my origin based on my “look”.

The east of England has a very large proportion of Eastern Europeans and I think people make hasty assumptions about immigrants based on this.

Case in point: I have Easter European au pairs to help me with the kids. They come for one year to have an experience and learn some English. Repeatedly they get spoken to like utter idiots by the locals and the mums at school despite them all having at least one degree (my current one has a masters in economics, I can’t even count my own toes) and they all speak at least three languages.

People have already suggested sensible ideas so I’m going to suggest you pick off some of the mums that aren’t in cliques and try to have conversations and also get yourself some volunteering or similar to do. And try to find someone to have some wine with..

Hi Mornel. I’m sorry you’re having a hard time. If it helps, you are not alone - I am from Wales but have lived in England for 20 years and still don’t feel like it’s home! This is not to say I’m not happy here - I am - but there’s something I can’t quite put into words about what makes somewhere ‘home’. Having said that, it is coming, slowly. It takes a long time to establish all those things that make you comfortable- see what is going on locally or volunteer if you can. Perhaps there is even a way of connecting with some other Latvians? I sincerely hope you’re not experiencing any xenophobic attitudes - rural England can be a funny old place but usually very warm and welcoming! Good luck

WI great idea. I am English and moved to Ireland for 10 years it does take a while to feel comfortable. It's hard without friends and family but keep trying it will get easier xxx xxx

Hi Mornel and everyone else! Sorry to hear you are feeling a bit isolated OP.

The things that spring to my mind are...

Timebank for volunteering opportunities: timebank.org.uk/
Mummy Social: mummysocial.com/
And I think someone else already mentioned Mumsnet Local - I know some talk boards are busier than others but it may be worth reaching out? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/local

I'm in South London and we have some very active local parent Facebook groups if you have an account. (I have RTFT so apologies if you've missed whether you are or aren't on Facebook!) I guess you could always try setting one up if there isn't one already?!

Good luck OP, I hope things improve and you find some lovely new friends! I absolutely love a chat so it's a shame we don't live closer. And agree with others on your excellent English!

Welcome, Mornel.
I moved to England from another part of the UK in the late 70s, and I still don't feel at home. I think people here are much more reserved than where I came from. Now my actual "home" has changed so much and family have moved - or died - that I feel a bit of a stranger there too. I am envious of people with strong roots for support.

Mornel, your written English is very good, but are you perhaps not so confident in spoken English?

I think you said you speak Russian at work all day. My cousin's husband is German, and they mostly speak German at home (though she's English), and he speaks mostly German at work. His spoken English is much worse than I would expect, given that he has been here about 10 years. Although a PP said don't worry about English lessons, I do wonder if more practice in spoken English would help. Some people might be unsure about talking to you, if they think it will be hard to communicate.

(If you are confident in spoken English, please ignore this suggestion, but I thought it worth mentioning. )

I think it’s hard. I’m English but living in Ireland for 6 years. I still feel an outsider!

I moved to Ireland for a couple of years in my twenties. I always felt an outsider. My religion, well lack of Catholicism, and Englishness seemed to be an issue. It was a shame really. It wasn’t too bad a place to live but eventually I had to cut my losses and come home.

I think it’s more about the people you are lucky enough (or unlucky sometimes) to be in the community of/company of really. More than the country. At the end of the day, we’re all the same; some communities are more inviting, some individuals put themselves out there more.

Hi. I have moved from London to the SW and don’t feel as comfortable but I have joined groups, volunteered. Meetup’s. I have met lots of people and some have worked and some haven’t. I now after 4 years have lots of different groups of friends. Don’t give up. There are some lovely people out there.

I think it depends where you live.

Where I live there are a lot of 'residents' (unsure how to describe) who are from various countries in Eastern Europe and Indian sub continent which creates a need for different places of worship etc.
What I have noticed is that many non British born residents (and some who are 2nd generation) choose not to integrate with the society around them and this can be quite secular, different to what you're looking for.

I understand it's easy to stay within a comfortable safety zone where others speak your language and you're used to their cultures (I've worked and lived abroad) but the onus is, I would say, more on you to integrate with those around you.
Joining in school pta groups, fitness classes etc I find are a good starting point as you need to communicate with at least 1 other person and build on from there.
Good luck going forward.

Hi, I just wanted to mention a book my husband read: 'Watching The English' by Kate Fox. He's Romanian, I'm English and we moved back to the UK after living in Greece for a number of years. Although he worked in the tourist industry and his English is great, he found this book both funny and enlightening as to why the English are the way they are, especially all the social interactions etc. Maybe you'd like to have a look?

Personally, while living in Greece, I probably felt more at home than in England, maybe because my parents were both from different areas, and we moved to the north when I was four, so it's very much the takes a generation or two to feel truly welcomed. Now we're back here, to the same area I grew up in, my social life has definitely come through the kids' activities and meeting parents that way. We luckily have many Romanians living fairly locally and have made acquaintances of those, although they all tend to be related and quite insular, so you never feel like true friends. I tried amateur dramatics, the church, hanging out watching the kids' taekwondo and chatting to parents there over coffee, which have all started relationships... I still after 6 years here don't feel I have any true friends, but I can see that it will take time and happen. Good luck and know that it's not just you, I think lots of people with busy lives tend to have difficulty finding time to build and maintain friendships x x

OP there's an interesting book out by David Goodhart called 'The Road to Somewhere' which divides the country into 'Somewheres' (people whose worldview is informed by where they are; often people rooted in a particular community) and the 'Anywheres' who are more global, often city people with a more international view - who often dominate in politics.

In my experience (20+ years living here as a foreigner in 5 different towns/cities) it's almost impossible to crack the 'Somewheres' because they'll have lived in a community their whole life, they tend to socialize with their family an inordinate amount of time (something I found a bit funny, the meeting up with family constantly and overreliance on family for help) as well as school friends and they don't really have much need to stray outside their social circle. That's a very broad generalization but has been my experience and within that there can be narrowmindedness and a lack of interest in others outside their circle.

Try to seek out the 'Anywheres' - ex pats, other foreigners, people who have travelled a lot or lived in different cities.

I think where it's challenging is to crack into communities that are dominated by the 'Somewheres' because there's not much motivation for them to meet new strangers from other places when their circles are pretty set.

If it's any consolation, I think the school playground is a very tricky place to make friends for parents. I grew up local to where I live, so am not an outsider, and yet have only made two friends from primary school parents; most of mine are from nursery (as you are forced to integrate with other parents at parties) or from work.

Mornel I am actually crying to hear of your distress. I really am terribly sorry to hear how people are being unfriendly. It is true that in England there are many people who do not move away from home and do not integrate with any newcomers, even British ones. I find the people here in the East Midlands very friendly. I am very worried in case the Brexit problem has gone against you. I have to be honest - there are a lot of ignorant horrible people in Britain who think that being in the EU caused a lot of people to come from Europe and they think they "took their jobs". It's lies and prejudice. I hate it! You may live in an area where these people are. I make a point of welcoming all the people who are obviously new to Britain (I ask when I detect an accent) and I tell them truthfully how important their contribution to our country is. There are several girls from Eastern Europe, working in 2 shops I frequent and I try to chat to them as often as I can. The British can be horrible but as the people here show, there are many lovely people here.

I go the the Salvation Army for my Christian Church. I am a member. I believe if you went to your local Salvation Army you would make many friends. We run a mother and Toddler group and many other things like "Messy Church" and Children's Church as well as Adult groups.

How I wish I could meet you but I am old and not in your generation. You need young friends. I will pray that you find them soon.

yaaass A big Yaaass! to your response.

Unfortunately in our country of Brexit-voting, spiteful tabloid headlines and poorly educated Brits with chips on their shoulders, the 'where' can be relevant.

I work in a school with almost 40% EAL students. Most of the families seem to stay within their communities as far as friendships are concerned. That's fine of you have a local community. One parent I can think of has a broader range of friends through their local pub. A few parents attend our parent forums and seem to be making friends that way.

I think that Sunday volunteering would be a great idea. Also a busy local church could be somewhere to meet more people if church is your 'thing.'

My own friends are almost exclusively from work, but I am lucky to work with a large bunch of lovely people.

Good luck - I hope that things improve for you.

I'm English and have lived in several countries. The one that I assimilated in best was Australia, which has a relatively high immigrant population. However, I still find that ethnic groups tend to stick together - our best friends here have all been English/Irish and I do think it's down to a shared heritage. I have many good Australian friends, many good Indian, Korean, Italian, Dutch - etc , but ultimately a shared interest/background tends to bring us together.

I've gone out of my way to learn many (ok, attempted to learn many) languages to help me get on in new countries, but in my experience it's the little things in a shared background that tend to lead to friendship - recollection of tv shows, similarities in parental behaviour and customs when we were children etc that make people bond.

That's not to say that it's impossible to make friends from a different culture. I think in your shoes I'd probably take a gamble and invite a couple of DS2's friends over for a combination Latvian/English afternoon tea as a playdate. Very low pressure, specific timelines and some fun thing for the boys to do while you chat with parents over some delicious Latvian specialties (with some English nibbles for the faint of heart).

Good Luck! It's not easy being an immigrant, regardless of your race.

I have lived in the same house for 31 years and I don’t know the name of the woman who moved in next door 20 years ago. We are friendly over the hedge and I lent her some secateurs when she was pruning one time but we English are a reserved lot and are happy to live at arm’s length.

OMG Teacher22 that just sums it up. People can be very happy being antisocial, it may not be personal, just that we can be an insular bunch! (Such as not talking to people on the tube, etc). Also, I used to live in a rural village and it was always said that you had to be there at least ten years before you became a local. That wasn't as 'rural' as Suffolk though, so you probably need to give them 20 years .

Sorry to hear about your situation though. Your English sounds great so please do just try to keep talking to people and joining groups, you will find friends! Good luck!

Lots of people feel the way you have described, try not to worry, a homely feeling can take a lot of years.
My grandmother came to England during ww2 from Latvia and she lives in Suffolk too, I love that part of England, especially the beaches.
Good luck with your friendships.

@Mornel hello and welcome to the UK. I'm a native and agree that some parts can be a bit quiet and insular and also that some people can be unfriendly. But that being said for the most part folks are nice. I hear Dunmow in Essex (I'm thinking not too far from you in Suffolk) is a lovely place to live and bring up little ones. Would you consider a move? Depending on where your job is in Suffolk it could be commutable. If not, keep at it and get yourself involved with local groups if you can with the kiddos. Also gyms, Pilates classes and yoga classes are great. I've met some lovely like minded ladies where I am from joining such groups. Keep strong and go with your instincts. I've had to move around lots and some places never sat right for me, it's about finding your nest. Good luck xx

Hi Mornel. Chin up (it means keep positive). You have way better English than I had Italian and I found friends after a couple of years. You only need one or two to really make you feel at home. My advice is to chat away to ANYONE any time you can. You had english friends before, you will find them again. And yes, it does make you feel at home. You just need o find someone who is patient with an accent and grammar mistakes. At least having those 'barriers' separates the golden hearts out quicker, because it takes a kind person to converse and make the effort with someone who communicates slower and with errors.

sixteenapples Actually, you were being rude, and then took her way of writing a sentence completely out of context. People like you are absolutely why she would feel more isolated. Looking for an excuse to be difficult. You also do realise her first language is not English? So therefore, you have to read the way people produce their sentences differently anyway and be more understanding. BUT there was absolutely nothing wrong with her reply I wouldn't have taken it out of context at all. Petty behaviour.

On another note, are you interested in sports? Join a team maybe, art classes? Book clubs? Take up somethign that may introduce you to more people and it may help

I am from the UK but have been an expat for a long time and know what you mean. All of my real friends here are expats too - not just British but all nationalities. I am friendly with a few locals but not really beyond small talk etc. We wouldn't really make plans to see each other socially.

I think this is an issue worldwide and I imagine especially difficult in a city that doesn't have a lot of expats (i.e. outside of Capitals etc.)

I honestly don't think it will be people not liking you - just that most of them have never been in your shoes and just don't relate. They will have been born and brought up there and their friendships will be based around that. To people who have never lived outside of their home city - they are bound to feel more comfortable and familiar with 'people like them' - who have the same shared cultural and social experiences.

I wouldn't focus so much on finding English friends. One of the best way I found to make friends was to join a sports team. The one I am on has people from a vast range of backgrounds and nationalities and through it I have some of the best laughs and greatest friendships since being here. Funnily enough - the only 'local' friends I have are through this team.