To wonder why anything that is good for kids is seen as 'middle class'?

[stuffstuffeverywhere]

Where did this weird, slightly derisory attitude come from?

Organic food? Middle class,
Fresh air and countryside? Middle class.
Clothing made of natural fibres? Middle class.
Breastfeeding? Middle class.
BLW? Middle class.
Books? Middle class.

Why are all the positive stereotypes seen as middle class?

Think about working class parenting stereotypes and it's all negative: sky tele, Mac Donald's, PlayStation, obesity....

Something very weird going on with our perceptions....

Wonder which side of the fence I'm on... Today I gave one child Supernoodles as a snack and the other hummous with veg crudites.

As some one said class is not about money or are people saying wayne and Coleen are middle/upper class for example?

I think that there is a desire by some MC people to carve out a specific a distinct identity for themselves because MC is such a grey area.
Upper class are titled and land owning. Upper MC are closer to upper class.
After that it gets a bit fuzzy. What distinguishes an “MC” office manager on £30k a year from a “WC” tube driver on £35k. It can’t be income so it becomes the intangibles.

Today I gave one child Supernoodles as a snack and the other hummous with veg crudites

That’s the difference between the WC and the MC. The WC will do this and admit it. The MC will do it and pretend the noodles never happened.

I remember one rather pretentious bloke I know claiming his teenagers had never been to McDonalds. I nodded and smile and thought “well the would hardly tell you would they —wanker—“

After that it gets a bit fuzzy. What distinguishes an “MC” office manager on £30k a year from a “WC” tube driver on £35k. It can’t be income so it becomes the intangibles.

Yes, this is the crux of it. The traditional markers of middle class (property ownership, private schooling, well rewarded professions) are becoming much more elusive. So the definition changes and suddenly it's about radio 4 and eating quinoa.

In the western world it’s very much socio economic how kids are raised

So discard the term middle Class but loom at the world and it’s a fact that Children from deprived backgrounds with less money and education don’t get this stuff

It’s a crying shame actually . Rather than be annoyed at the inverse snobbery (so what ) get angry at what our society has become

I mean who cares what class people get defined as?

But look at Pupil referral units
Look at foster care
Look at who does go to Uni and grammar school
Look who doesn’t
Look at how we normalise Chav bashing
Look at how our newspapers reflect our societal groupings so much

Social mobility in the UK is in a terrible
State . Even America’s better ! South Europe is far more inclusive even

But look at Pupil referral units
Look at foster care
Look at who does go to Uni and grammar school
Look who doesn’t
Look at how we normalise Chav bashing
Look at how our newspapers reflect our societal groupings so much

Sorry, but that is such a fucking MC thing to say.

You’re confusing the underclass with working class for a start. Being working class doesn’t make you a chav or indulge in the objectionable behaviour associated with them.
More children from poor families go into care because if you’re incapable of parenting a child you probably also have problems which stop you succeeding in the areas of life which allow you to make money. It doesn’t mean working class people as a whole have problems or that they have problems because they’re poor/working class.
Going to uni isn’t the only way to be a success. There are plenty of construction workers without a single GCSE who earn far more than most graduates.
The only people who get their knickers in a twist about newspapers are the MC. Half the working classes only ever read the sport pages anyway and get their news off the net anyway.

Haven't rtft, but all this middle class, underclass, working class, upper class bullshit needs to stop. Why are some people so obsessed by it? Does it make you feel better? Is it a complex thing? Genuinely confused.

Fair point
And.....
I am trying to say that I am more worried about poor social mobility that perceived MC bashing

I believe that the very visible class and socioeconomic barriers are getting worse in the UK and not better . And if that’s a MC thing to say so what ? It’s true

Brilliant post chazsbrilliantattitude

stopfuckingshoutingatme your post isn’t really about class. It’s about the disadvantaged in life but certainly, pupils in referral units can be from all backgrounds

After that it gets a bit fuzzy. What distinguishes an “MC” office manager on £30k a year from a “WC” tube driver on £35k. It can’t be income so it becomes the intangibles

Cultural interest, education and their social markers such as what newspaper (hint, sun and DM are not MC).

Language used can give away a background, personally I don't care about anyone's background as long as they are nice people. It's not long since there was a really rigid class system, we are moving in the right direction but have a long way to go.

It really isn't all about money. I'm from an incredibly bizarre bohemian, showbizzy background with a Grandmother who married down for sure and was disowned by her family. The system was rigid then, this is just after WW1 when there was a shortage of men.

I have met through work and voluntary work people with varying backgrounds. From the barely literate to people who are world experts in their fields. From people that qualify for help from a food bank to DH mates who are international bankers and earn ridiculous amounts of money.

I'm glad I have mixed with all sorts of people. I also like mixing with people who don't share the same opinion as me. I find a lot of people search out the familiar and I certainly have friends who have the same interests as me. Birds of a feather do flock together and if we just stay within our own flock always it leads to misunderstanding.

My point is that Children from a less economically advantaged background don’t get access to many of the things that OP mentions
Cheap food is fattening
Music lessons cost a lot
Their parents might not have the will or means to take the to scouts

Sweden have free university education , Italy have free amazing school meals

My PRU example wasn’t the best one but not everyone in Poverty is WC or even that vile term UC

I am a bit down on the UK this week 😠

I grew up upper middle class, parents split and my dad does very well, never deprived us and paid over the odds child maintenance but my mum had to watch her pennies as my dad let her keep the house (high mortgage).
I got called a middle class earth mum because I’m 20 and breastfeed, used a sling for the first 3 months, and cook from scratch.

If you’re working class you wear a mac when it’s raining.
The middle class put on a raincoat.

Working class isn’t synonymous with poverty though. There is no reason to assume that because some working class people are poor that struggling with money is an indicator of class. Most working class people happily get along with no more money problems than anyone else

I think it's an attitude as well.
Being poor didn't stop us from providing many things that have been associated with being mc.
We consider ourselves working class but kids have always had extra curricular activities, good food cooked from scratch, music and dance lessons, a full library of books, from charity shop.
We don't have money problems because we are frugal and only spend what we need to and prioritise our spending.
We'd be worried if we didn't.

Take that BBC calculator with a pinch of salt! I’m apparently elite, which is nonsense. I grew up in poverty in a Yorkshire pit village.
I’d say culturally I’m WC -MC. Poor parents, did well at school/uni and became a scientist. I have eaten super noodles this week 😁

Cultural interest, education and their social markers such as what newspaper (hint, sun and DM are not MC).

Neither Marx nor Weber would recognise those as markers of class distinctions. Education to some degree, but only to the degree it influences your market situation within the economy.

Backenette

I am not convinced supernoodles are a cultural marker. After all most upper class people will have grown up eating boarding school food.

There used to be a joke
Working class tea
Toad in the hole and pudding with custard
Middle class dinner
Seared halibut on a bed of quinoa with steamed kale and organic sheep's yogurt with organic strawberry compote
Upper class supper
Toad in the hole and pudding with custard

I have done this and come out as established middle class, I work in a call centre.
maybe it's because I said I listened to jazz, Opera and classical music and visited the theatre

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22000973

I understand it comes from seating allocation in Victorian public transport; working classes tended to do manual labour where clothes got dirty and earned less(blue collar workers) so sat separated from middle classes (white colllar workers) whom of which had more money, so nicer and cleaner seating areas in carriages, passenger ships etc.... remember Titanic?

Owning Tweed clothing= MC