To wonder why anything that is good for kids is seen as 'middle class'?

[stuffstuffeverywhere]

Where did this weird, slightly derisory attitude come from?

Organic food? Middle class,
Fresh air and countryside? Middle class.
Clothing made of natural fibres? Middle class.
Breastfeeding? Middle class.
BLW? Middle class.
Books? Middle class.

Why are all the positive stereotypes seen as middle class?

Think about working class parenting stereotypes and it's all negative: sky tele, Mac Donald's, PlayStation, obesity....

Something very weird going on with our perceptions....

Positive working class stereotypes; Kids know what moneys worth /not spoiled

Disagree with this - excessive gift giving, going overboard with Christmas etc is very much prevalent in poorer households.

@Creambun2 it's a stereotype, I didn't say I agree with it being true. Op asked for any positive wc stereotypes.

Sorry, what is LBW.

Having books in the house isn’t a sign of anything if my family are anything to go by. DD has lots of books in her room as she’s at school and she should read physical books. However, there’s probably only about two adult books in the whole house.

DH and I read everyday via downloaded books to kindles and phones but if you visited our home you’d think we never read. DH hates the clutter of books and as we only usually read books once (apart from academic books) it seems a waste of space to have shelves full of things we’ll never get around to using again. Therefore I’d be very irritated to be judged by some snob who thinks because they can’t physically see literature that we don’t read. We both have degrees and several professional qualifications each.

Back to the OP, YANBU at all. I have seen some so called middle classes try to claim everything that’s good and label everything that isn’t the exact way they do things as chavvy which to them is exactly the same as WC. Many of the so called MC (I call it ‘so called’ because I believe if someone in your household has to work you’re WC no matter what fancy job title they have) are very vocal about their parenting so it’s easy for everyone to see/hear what is apparently MC and chavvy (WC).

I grew up relatively poor in a WC area with WC family. I now earn good money and live in a wealthy area and the smugness of some the MC infuriates me especially as they expect you to collude in their snobbishness knowing that’s how they’d see your parents. Nevertheless, my parents always cooked from scratch and encouraged us to read despite the both of them working every hour God sent in low paid jobs to survive.

BLW.

Excessive gift giving, going overboard with Christmas etc is very much prevalent in poorer households.

Excess at christmas is part of working class culture. Yet kids will generally have far, far more spent on them in terms of material goods throughout the year in middle class households compared to working class.

I call it ‘so called’ because I believe if someone in your household has to work you’re WC

I'll say again, the middle classes have always worked (in professions) it's the upper classes who don't work.

“There's a huge change a-comin in the income/class difference debate - most of the middle class under 35 have been priced out of property ownership, the foundation stone (sorry) of the bourgeoisie for centuries.

When the young MC also realise that no matter how how many hours they put in, or how hard they study, they can't get a pension or afford private school either, they'll start to twig that they're now working class too. They just worked a lot harder to get there.”

I love this post and wholeheartedly agree. Up the revolution

You've lost me on this one OP. We're likely considered a working class family (I'm a qualified teacher, but out of work at the moment through choice to stay home with DS, OH is a care assistant, we rent our home in a run down area, don't run a car, don't go abroad), yet we tick all of the boxes on some level:

Organic food, we have an allotment so grow a lot of our own fruit and veg,
Fresh air and countryside, Allotment time and park trips, runs too the beach, picnics by the riverside nearby are all common activities in our family.

Clothing made of natural fibres, everything in DS's wardrobe is pure cotton as I have trouble keeping on top of his skin allergies in synthetic fabrics.

Breastfeeding, still going at almost 2 years.

BLW, did this because it seemed less faff than traditional weaning to me, and I'm all for saving on faff where you can.

Books, I love reading myself, and it didn't occur to me not to share that with DS. I was read to as a child, it's just normal in our family.

I don't parent to make any kind of point to anyone, I do what I feel is best for us, often what's easiest, so there's the odd McDonalds meal, and sometimes TV in bed if I want a nap and DS doesn't. I'm aware I'm faaaar from the 'perfect parent' whatever that may be, and certainly wouldn't consider myself middle class.

Sorry, what is LBW.

Leg before wicket. Middle class sporting reference

the middle classes have always worked (in professions)
but the pure "working class" jobs have pretty much disappear - or change, look how much a tube driver earns!, and what was seen as middle class in the past (education to a point, office and so on) is now definitively working class.

Upper class people do work, they might not all need to, but most of them have jobs. Even the Royal Family is alleged to "work", but that's another thread entirely.

I am rock n roll! That transcends class, and usually ensueres other mummies think I have no class at all when I turn up to playgroup in band t shirts, leopard print coat and DMs. Not helped my DD being a bit of a whirlwind.

As for the stuff here, BLW not for me. I was too paranoid and lazy (pnd)
DD has stuff from both primark and boden. I wouldn't be seen dead in either.
Bulding dens, countryside. Yeah ok we do that.
SAHM yep. Because of money.
TV on all the time due to DD's anxieties (ASC) she isn't watching 90% of time but needs it on for some reason. If I turn it off she meltsdown.
McDonalds, love the stuff, yet I make a lovely chick pea and kale curry.
Also DH and I degree educated, naice house.
I read too. And er, do crosswords and jigsaws too.
Yeah, IDK which class I am. Diagnose me?
Or paraphrase the libertines, "die in the class I was born. A class of my own, my love"

Access to sports and clubs are seen as middle class because of the costs involved. For some families, they simply can't afford it.

Most athletes that take part in the olympics come from wealthy back grounds.

Classism. The idea behind the stereotypes is that working class people are inferior to middle class people. It's similar to racial stereotypes- there are lots of negative stereotypes about people who experience racism (black and brown people here in the US). Part of sexism is negative stereotypes about women.

Someone on a thread a few weeks ago discussed a “working class face”

Maybe they’ll come back and clarify what that means so we can all grab a mirror and discover our class.

The funny thing is that forty or so years back all those things were the cheap option. Where I grew up the cheapest (and best) veg was from the local market from local suppliers. Having spoken to stall holders most of it was organic, but the term wasn’t really used back then.

Books - we were poor as church mice but we had a house full of books Nd the local library

Fresh air - lots of that, not much else to do.

BLW - is just a fancy term for finger food, we just got whatever everyone else was eating.

Now these things seem to be more aspirational, possibly because of lifestyle changes. We never ate junk food bar a trip to the chip shop once a month because we just couldn’t afford it. There were no electronics. There were no organic avocados and quinoa either but we ate Very healthy

They’re mostly more expensive and the middle classes tend to have more money .

These are the modern class categories ( ignore the stats).

Because you/we have been conditioned to think that middle class things are aspirational and sneer at working class pastimes without any basis for this.

Half of those things youve said are not even specific to any class

If you aren't sure if you are middle class ask yourself if you will be up against the wall come the revolution, Citizen?

I don’t think anyone in the UK is thinking of modern class (technical middle etc) or socio economic grouping when they refer to class.

In reply to a previous poster who asked about a positive stereotype of the working class- goodness- loads! MN is a real wannabe middle class bubble (with very few actually being middle class but many upper working class who are desperately scratching their way up)

Middle class is the boring class. It’s the boring car, the boring job, the boring clothes, the class who observes rather than creates.

the responsible class who are squeezed by being neither rich nor poor.

Can you imagine aspiring to be middle
Class? Actually I can. Someone who thinks they’ve made it because they shop
In John Lewis

But cool? Creative? Trend setting? That’s never been middle class. It’s the dull sheep of the population.

I agree with you about grammar, if you can't afford expensive tutoring, you have no chance

Another mum said that to my SIL when she wasn't getting a tutor for my niece. DN not only passed the 11+, but got a full scholarship to the best independent grammar in the area.

We do all those things in the op. We also have cloth nappies and use slings a lot to carry babies about the place (admittedly, I only started doing this as we used to live in a flat and I got sick of carrying the push chair up and down the stairs every time we went out / came home. I also have a tattoo and a fairly strong, regional accent though and have been known, in my time, to patronise the odd McDonald’s.

I think I must be a very mixed up individual !

“Re; the book stereotype, just go on right move and have a nose a properties of various prices in your area. I bet you find houses equally empty of books (or full of them) in any price range”

I have to admit I find this stereotype rather tired. I’m an avid reader but there are no books on display in my house. I mean after all, who hasn’t had a kindle for the past 10 years?

OP it is coming across quite Ike you have lots of middle class friends who slag off working class parents but don't know any working class people yourself.

I think quite a lot of it is to do with how far away you are from real grinding poverty.IME There is definitely an UWC/LMC thing about dirt/cleanliness eg: immaculate kids, house, a kind of fear of dirt and mess (DM has this) I think this comes from being not too far away from not having clean things or not being able to wash as often as you'd like eg: LWC or underclass. This mind set wouldn't encourage BLW or den building eg playing in the mud, similarly maybe breastfeeding historically was something poor women did. I think there is a certain Boho /hippy MMC which kind of goes to the opposite extreme and any attempt to contain mess or even wear or dress their children conventional clothing is suppressed lest anyone think them LMC or UWC within this group consumerism is frowned upon and anything new or shiny is considered a bit declasse