To wonder why anything that is good for kids is seen as 'middle class'?

[stuffstuffeverywhere]

Where did this weird, slightly derisory attitude come from?

Organic food? Middle class,
Fresh air and countryside? Middle class.
Clothing made of natural fibres? Middle class.
Breastfeeding? Middle class.
BLW? Middle class.
Books? Middle class.

Why are all the positive stereotypes seen as middle class?

Think about working class parenting stereotypes and it's all negative: sky tele, Mac Donald's, PlayStation, obesity....

Something very weird going on with our perceptions....

Because for some reason it is automatically accepted that being 'middle class' is better than being 'working class'.

You would think that this is obvious and aligned with income but a quick scan of any thread about class on MN will avail you of the fact that class apparently is only loosely correlated with finances.

I wouldn't call organic food a positive stereotype. To me it just suggests someone is a credulous fool.

You generally need to have a certain amount of money to pay more for the exact same product just because it has a particular badge.

OP and Love and Sixteen

I think it's just shorthand for attitudes which have become established in public perception. It's also little to do with wealth. I've gone into friends' homes from different ends of the income range and seen no books and my prejudice tells me "uninteresting". They may be rocket scientists with kindles somewhere. I think there is a human tendency to classify and a lot of time it's completely wrong. But there may be something about diet/countryside that is middle income (not class) related - if you're not earning very much and live somewhere in a city far from a decent market, then taking your kids into the countryside/getting hold of fresh veg becomes a low priority.

Lots of those are expensive and unnecessary things eg buying organic food and letting your baby throw it on the floor

here's your answer! It's reverse snobbery, people love to make negative comments about the "middle class" and pretend they don't belong to it, or that they are better.
Let's face it, if you need a job to pay the bills and roof over you head, you are working class nowadays.

I'm weary of people using class and income bracket as interchangeable terms. This isn't the 1800s any more. I am middle class according to my characteristics, qualifications, hobbies, background etc. However, as it happens, my income is low, and I live in a down to earth non-leafy area. When people assume middle class means middle income, I don't recognise the comparison. It also seems that our area isn't given decent public services because being poor, we must also be thick, unmotivated and couldn't possibly appreciate cleaner streets, much better schools, a greener environment etc.

There's a huge change a-comin in the income/class difference debate - most of the middle class under 35 have been priced out of property ownership, the foundation stone (sorry) of the bourgeoisie for centuries.

When the young MC also realise that no matter how how many hours they put in, or how hard they study, they can't get a pension or afford private school either, they'll start to twig that they're now working class too. They just worked a lot harder to get there.

Erm... maybe because middle class people do these things? And talk about them a lot.

Yanbu

The working classes have always been judged as inferior with a lot of nice middle class parenting choices such as cooking from scratch, buying organic food, going to the theatre, owning lots of books etc. being labelled as just that 'educated choices' rather than being one of the benefits of having more money.

They're lovely things to do, and I know that many wc patents manage most of it too and grow own veg and visit libraries, find cheaper tickets - but that all takes work and at least some resources. I do think that mc are simply more likely to do those things because it's easier to order organic food in the Waitrose shop than to grow it yourself. It's less hassle to order books from Amazon or drive to Waterstones than to catch a bus or walk through the cold to the library.

I grew up wc and still consider myself wc, and I was very hard up until five years or so ago, but even when my ten year old was little I tried my best to afford lots of healthy food and to take him to cultural activities etc. but it was hard.

I also agree that many positive aspects of wc culture get overlooked and that much more wc are interested in cooking. reading gardening, the arts than mc people might (like to) think. We just can't afford to do as much of it, or at least not so ostentatiously :-)

you say that, but most allotments seem to be booked by wc people. You could argue that the so-called MC has garden, but as a group, they don't tend to grow so many vegetables in them.

Re; the book stereotype, just go on right move and have a nose a properties of various prices in your area. I bet you find houses equally empty of books (or full of them) in any price range.

I haven't 'heard' this so much as can come to my own conclusions- it is possible!

It's not a new attitude but it is more prevalent- extending to food and clothing. When I was a kid it was mainly about books and education- that being for swots, snobs and posh people you see.

It's sad that being working class partly has a stereotype of being a slightly shit parent.

Class very much exists in this country and insisting that it doesn't, does the people at the bottom no favours whatsoever.

How can books be middle class. Anyone heard of a library? The best free way to entertain your child/toddler/baby

I do agree that class very much exists, but I don't think most people put themselves in the right one!

Well some of those things (organic, natural fibres and, trips to the librettist) are not done by most WC families for economic reasons as pointed out above. Others are still not widely practiced by WC parents in some parts (for example where I live breastfeeding is a rarity amongst the WC for some reason). Then the things you have identified as WC just aren't done by families who are not workingclass like x boxes. I think you've confused not working class/not economically limited with middle class. I wouldn't call most of the things on your list middle class tbh, I consider middle class parenting to consist of mini Boden and not paying for your child's education so that you can afford a ski trip. Breastfeeding and what not is just a default position rather than a class thing.

How can books be middle class. because the perception is that WC spend their life in front of giant TVs. As if MC class properties only had either no TV, or small ones barely used...

There have been studies that suggest more middle class mothers breastfeed than working class. (Many years ago it was the opposite way round).
Possibly more middle class families can afford organic food and clothes made of natural fibres.
Possibly more educated parents see more value in reading books.

I don't think these are just perceptions but being middle class doesn't make you a better parent and being working class doesn't make you a worse parent.
Being a good parent is about doing the best with the knowledge and facilities you have.

Are there any positive, working class stereotypes?

I've never actually seen anything wrong with being middle class.

@Royalbelum you're wrong about the books-access to quality literature is very limited by income. We have thousands of pounds worth of books. We spend a few hundred on books per annum. Many working class families could never afford that. Less educated people are also less likely to keep an abundance of books in the home as many books relate to specialist areas of knowledge/require a certain level of education to understand. Half of our books are academic works.

not paying for your child's education so that you can afford a ski trip
I don't understand what you mean by that, do you mean the parents who refuse to pay for school trips etc and the school fund finance their kids when they could well afford to pay?

Let's face it, if you need a job to pay the bills and roof over you head, you are working class nowadays.

The middle classes have always worked in professions. It's the upper classes that don't work.

@stuffstuff WC people are stereoptypically less up themselves, more accepting/down to earth, friendlier and, have more community spirit.

I guess a lot of the things on your list are either expensive (organic food, clothing with exclusively natural fabrics) or they tend to be pursued by people with some form of cultural or educational capital, which is usually easier to access for the middle classes.

I was shocked to hear a friend from a MC background - who is herself a huge breastfeeding advocate - say that for her DH's family (who are WC) breastfeeding is something shameful that you only do if you can't afford formula. I thought those attitudes had gone out decades ago, but apparently not.

Positive working class stereotypes;

You'll always be welcome to a cup of tea or your dinner in their house.
Kids allowed to play out til the street lights come on
More friendly
Kids know what moneys worth /not spoiled

@Rpyal the ones who play the state school system to push out wc children from certain schools (especially faith/grammar schools) when they don't actually need tax payer funded schooling.

Yes but take it from me, someone from a very working class background who's house was full of books.....from the flea market and the library. Books are NOT middle class. Certain types of literature are mc but books are not