To wonder why anything that is good for kids is seen as 'middle class'?

[stuffstuffeverywhere]

Where did this weird, slightly derisory attitude come from?

Organic food? Middle class,
Fresh air and countryside? Middle class.
Clothing made of natural fibres? Middle class.
Breastfeeding? Middle class.
BLW? Middle class.
Books? Middle class.

Why are all the positive stereotypes seen as middle class?

Think about working class parenting stereotypes and it's all negative: sky tele, Mac Donald's, PlayStation, obesity....

Something very weird going on with our perceptions....

Is there somethimg tangible which makes MC culture inherently superior to WC culture?

The stuff about lentils and cooking from scratch is often used as a way to dismiss poor people as thick and lazy. In fact many poor people simply can't do all this fiddly cooking and batch cooking. They don't have the money, the time or the facilities. if you have only a tiny fridge, there's no point in cooking vats of stuff to freeze, because you've nowhere to freeze it. If you live a two-buses ride away from any shops other than the overpriced Tesco Metro and the corner shop that doesn't sell fresh food, then you're not going to have much access to a range of veg. And if you are poor but working two jobs just to keep the rent paid, you're not going to have the time or the strength to cook anything time-consuming when you actually get home.

I was brought up working class
We went to the country park regularly where my dad would tell me the great outdoors and fresh air is very good for you. My mum took me to the library at least once a week and I had books at home. She didn't breastfeed me for long because she couldn't produce enough milk- nothing to do with class

Actually I think its worth mentioning that there's arguably greater cultural discrepancy between the lower and upper working class than between the upper working and middle classes.

You’ve got your “classes” all wrong.
Of course to those that grew up post war, the excesses mentioned would be seen as frivolous.

access to quality literature is very limited by income.
what a patronising view of the world. You should have a look at the price of second hand books these days, you might not be able to afford a first-edition collector item on minimum wage, but you will get a cheap paperback version for pennies.

Some people have no ambition, others had families to support. It doesn't mean "quality literature" is out of their reach.

On the other hand, I am not sure ALL overpaid famous football players or actors with pretty much unlimited funds have any interest in them.

McDonald's - American, not WC.
All classes have televisions these days, surely?
Only some MC families don't, and most people see it as a deliberate affectation (I include myself in this! We have no television, because we never watched it, and couldn't afford the licence).

Obesity, is more of a lack of money thing than a class thing, surely? I know obese people of WC and MC backgrounds.

As for books and bfing, these also are classless. And blw- when I had my babies, we lived in a very poor vibrant inner city area, and the HVs all advocated blw, there were MC and WC HVs btw.

@Jacinta there is so much disparity between the middle classes that they have officially been separated into three categories. Sneering at the class of middle class bellow you is practically an olympic sport these days.

Oh, and MC does not = has money!!

MC cannot automatically afford school fees, outy. Average school fees £12k p.a. from net income, per child. Considering housing costs these days, very few of any class can afford school fees, perhaps why schools are so keen to attract Chinese and Russian pupils?

the ones who play the state school system to push out wc children from certain schools (especially faith/grammar schools) when they don't actually need tax payer funded schooling.

I don't think families who could afford to send their kids to private school should. Going with your example, holidays are just as important as school education, so a ski trip for everybody is worth not going private.

I agree with you about grammar, if you can't afford expensive tutoring, you have no chance. The entrance shouldn't be income related however, it's just supply and demand: limited spaces, school take the best pupils, that's the whole point.

@Royal, I meant literature as a whole not literary fiction. Most books of high quality (outside of literature) aren't even protected paper back. A single book in a specialist subject can cost hundreds of pounds. We buy as much as we can on the cheap but even the second hand one can cost £50 a pop. Academic quality books are very expensive-otherwise their authors wouldn't make any money.

I strong disagree on the lint if schooling-if you can afford to pay you must, otherwise the welfare state will come crashing down. It was created to serve the poor not to finance frivolous trips.

The working class are split in the same way.
You just don't hear them harping on about it quite so much.

There's a greater cultural difference between your average Jeremy Kyle guest and the nurse married to the dietitian living in a suburban 3 bed semi and your local Hyacinth Bucket (if you are lower MC) and the CEO of a multinational.

@Phil reread. I specified the ones abusing the system were MC not using.

Allotments
Free-range childhood
Building dens in the woods

All very “working class” when I was growing up but now a bit hipster

@Jacinta the divide between the MMC and UMC is the divide of the nation though isn't it. It's the divide culturally between the well educated and well mannered and the divide economically between those taking from the state and those financing it.

The education in most grammar schools is superior to some private schools, why would you pay for an inferior product ?

Organic food? Middle class

Have you seen how much organic food costs? And the benefits are very much debatable. Even a lot of middle class people can’t afford it.

Fresh air and countryside? Middle class.

Er, no. Have you not noticed it’s free? Have a look at the history of right to roam. It was a working class movement, especially around Sheffield and Manchester.

Clothing made of natural fibres? Middle class.

Why is that ‘good for children’? Does polyester lead to teenage pregnancy and poor GCSE results? Again, expensive, few benefits. The main benefit being outward expression of your middle class credentials and ability to afford not to shop at Primark and Mataram.

Breastfeeding? Middle class.

Er, no. Also free.

BLW? Middle class.

Working class mothers tend not to get worked up about having to fit into a particular labelled way of doing things. Some middle class mothers worry that if Felix is given a single spoon full of purée it will then be the start of a downward spiral that will inevitably end up with him being found dead in a crack house of heroin overdose whilst in the advanced stages of AIDS. Working class mothers tend to call it ‘giving him a few sticks of cucumber, crackers and cheese’ rather than sticking a poncy label on it and being conned into paying for an expensive book or course to state the bleeding obvious.

Books? Middle class

Er, no. I know plenty of working class people who read voraciously. I know plenty of middle class people who won’t allow a book in the house because it creates dust and they don’t need them because they have the full Sky package.

What are you trying to say OP? That oiks just feed their kids pombears and froot shoots while dressed in static electricity charged polyester shell suits?

if you can afford to pay you must, otherwise the welfare state will come crashing down. It was created to serve the poor not to finance frivolous trips.

I couldn't disagree more, it's better for schools to welcome a wide range of pupils for a start!
No one is abusing the system because they keep enough money to pay for an expensive mortgage, finance extra activities for their kids, and yes, take holidays. life is too short!

Nothing against private schools at all, some are amazing and give incredible opportunities, but nothing wrong with parents refusing to spend £100 in one school blazer and keep their kids in a good state school with affordable uniform.

"access to quality literature is very limited by income."

I don't agree. The library (while it still exists) is free, and even if you get through every interesting book, you can order in any more you wish to read.

middle class is very broad - it splits into lower middle, middle middle and upper middle.

If you're on mumsnet then you're defo MC

I think the Gill Sims Facebook page, aka Peter and Jane, reinforces some of these stereotypes. She'll pepper her albeit tongue-in-cheek writing with "middle class trip to the museum" or "middle class organic food" for example.

Because social mobility is based on striving to better yourself and move up the ranks. People try to use markers to determine whether they fit into certain class rankings. Some things the media has taken to portray as MC such as organic, batch cooking, cooking from scratch and it's just social trends.

Years ago my WC grandmother was widowed young, had numerous kids to feed so she kept chickens, got an allotment and was probably an early exponent of the fabled mumsnet chicken doing 5 meals plus sent my uncle to the local grammar school but couldn't afford my dad to go as well. Today she might be viewed as having MC tendencies but her actions were born out necessity

If you're on mumsnet then you're defo MC I hope you are being sarcastic!