Can't stand men, do I need help rectifying this.

[carolmusic]

Yes I've had bad relationships which has definitely contributed to this statement, currently single and not even slightly interested in finding anyone. I've had enough of them. They seem so arrogant, drive like they rule the roads(I drive a lot in my job), seem to have no respect for women, see them looking at young girls with their tongues wagging, it's pathetic. They don't seem to like women with authority, who can look after themselves and do things without a man. They annoy me every day now and yes I'm probably looking out for these things but I can't help it. Do I need help/counselling/whatever to get over this or is this how it is now? HELP, am I alone in this?

As you surely know, men don't even have to think about these things.

Why do you think that? Men are at double the risk of being victims of violence than women. And when the attacker is a stranger the risk is almost 4 x as big for men. Women are much more likely to be attacked in their own home by someone they know.

So, yes, men do have to modify their behaviour. Unless you are particularly big and young, it’s probably not a great idea to be hanging around a pub at kicking out time or after a football match. Particularly not if you’re a goth or look like Jacob Rees Mogg or are a bit of a hipster or you’re elderly or disabled or a bit short or skinny. Men do have to think about their appearance and if it will make them a target. I have been in mixed groups where we’ve left a pub or waited outside a station or around the corner from a bus stop because we felt there was a risk of violence from a gang of lads.

In the situation you describe (out or travelling home) men are actually far more at risk of being a victim of violent crime than women.

Rather than being something which ‘all men’ do it’s more something that a few men do but many more men are also victims.

The problem is that as a society we do not have an effective system for dealing with the men who do these things to men and women and we don’t seem to be even bothering to try.

If you’re just going to write off half the world nothing will ever change. Why would anyone bother to try and change something that was inherently bad? If you acknowledge that there is a hardcore of men who are a problem for everybody (male and female) and that they are perfectly capable of behaving like other, decent men: then you can insist it stops.

What would the ‘All men are evil’ crowd on here like to do? Wipe out all men or just keep them in captivity for sperm?

There are individual men I like. As a class though, the world would be better off without them.

Jesus Christ what a ghastly depressing thread !!

People are people. Some are nice, some are nasty, some are ignorant, some are wise, some are kind, some are selfish.

Nothing to do with gender, sex, sexual orientation, race, age or ethnicity.

Exactly fruitscoffer.

Women are much more likely to be attacked in their own home by someone they know. Don't you think this is a massive part of the problem Elton? You say this like we shouldn't be worried, because hey, being attacked by the man who is supposed to love you is fine.

If you acknowledge that there is a hardcore of men who are a problem for everybody (male and female) and that they are perfectly capable of behaving like other, decent men: then you can insist it stops. That's exactly what this thread is. It's just that in the experience of all too many of us, that 'hardcore' seems to be about 90%

and our insistence on it stopping falls on deaf ears because we're just humourless harridans/man hating lesbians if we don't want to be belittled, intimidated, mocked, leered at and generally disrespected by this massive hardcore of men who think their right to say and do what the fuck they like trumps our right to feel safe and comfortable going about our lives.

Don't you think this is a massive part of the problem Elton? You say this like we shouldn't be worried, because hey, being attacked by the man who is supposed to love you is fine.

Yes it is. But I was specifically responding to a poster who was claiming that men are unaffected by male violence while they are outside the home living their everyday lives and don’t have to change their behaviour to avoid violence. In fact they do, and they’re actually the victims of it twice as often as women.

that 'hardcore' seems to be about 90%

Well that isn’t actually true. Because given repeat offending men are much more likely to be the victims of male violence than the perpetrators of it.

It only takes a quick google.

I'm so pleased I don't know any women most of you in real life.

I've often wondered though if this has to do with success.

I'm pretty successful and financially comfortable. 99% of my social circle send their children to an independent school and I attended one too.

Because these people have made a god life for themselves, they don't need someone to blame for whatever they don't like and don't have this general disdain for me.

I've actually laughed at a few posts like @slothsloth - imagining the dream of a world without men.

@Eltonjohnssyrup the idea that all men avoid the pub "around closing time" or "after a football match" (?!) in the same way (almost) all women avoid walking by themselves at night is just mad and so obviously untrue. My DP is a skinny, bespectacled man who is often found in pubs of various levels of "toughness" watching football - yes, until closing time sometimes! Certainly he has to be careful when interacting with men giving off certain vibes, but when i need to go somewhere after dark he walks me there and quite happily walks back alone. The fact that this is a normal thing most men do on a regular basis for female partners and friends demonstrates how much safer men feel on the streets.

Even if the nonsense about men avoiding pubs were true, which i repeat again it isn't, being limited in your choice of pubs is NOT the same as being limited to staying off the streets after dark.

In any case all this talk about men getting attacked is just further proving the point of many posters here, that men as a class are ruining the world for EVERYONE, including other men. I don't know where you got the idea that I think all men are evil. I think men collectively are socialised in a way that makes them harmful as a class. Acknowledging that is fundamental to solving the many dire social problems that stem overwhelmingly from men's behaviour.

How many men do you know who walk home with their keys between their fingers in case they get attacked, or consider which shoes they should wear in order to be able to run away faster, or worry if their hair makes it easy to be grabbed, or if their shirt is a bit too showy and could invite unwelcome attention/rape from someone out in public, or end up with their girlfriend abusing them because of it when they get home because they're obviously asking for it?

@CSIFemale you have misunderstood me. I don't dream of a world without men - I just used that to show how overwhelmingly responsible men are for violent and sexual crime. It is undeniably true their disappearance would cause the near disappearance of certain types of offences. I don't want them gone though, I just want them less violent! Surely that isn't unreasonable.

How can I misunderstand someone who also says "men as a class are ruining the world for EVERYONE, including other men"?

Please tell me you sit behind your computer and don't interact or have any interaction with boys who might grow up believing your poison?

Lesbian relationships are more akin to MMA fight than a loving relationship. The levels of violence are horrific and statistically far worse than hetrero relationships. Far, far worse than gay (man) relationships. I guess I dream of a world without lesbians. Getting rid of black people would lower knife crime too. No more black people in America would lower gun crime. Taking children away from mothers would stop infanticide nearly overnight.

Your post wasn't the most shocking but I could see it on the screen whilst I typed my reply.

This thread is of course self selecting, both by the forum and the thread itself but honestly, the hyperbole and "I don't hate men individually, just as a class" is gobsmacking.

@MyRelationshipIsWeird

No idea. How many women do?I'd love to see the facts and figures unless, of course, you have nothing beyond a little rhetoric.

@CSIFemale Oh dear. It's always embarrassing when someone starts wheeling out people of colour and other minorities as props for a totally unrelated argument, genuinely thinking they're playing a trump card.

And my DStepson seems to be thriving well enough on my "poison", thanks Growing up to be thoughtful and aware, as we need men to be.

I would actually seek counselling to be honest. My ex husband was very much like you described, he was aggressive and a bully, he left me and our 3 kids to rot. My husband before him was also aggressive and a wife beater (I don’t half pick em!). I totally gave up on men and thought the same as you. I was a single mum to my 3 for 4 years, and I’m disabled and suffer chronic illnesses. I proved I could do it all alone, I didn’t even have family to help. After four years I started online dating just to go out every now and again and have a laugh because I did NOT want another man in my life. I met who is now my fiancé and he is utterly amazing, we are still madly in love after 2 years, he is an amazing stepdad to my kids, much better than their own dad and they’ve been challenging because of their dads behaviour, but they all love him to bits too. He honestly makes me a better person. I nearly didn’t speak to him. I nearly didn’t get involved. Now my favourite part of the day is when he finishes work. You need to find a way to let go of your past so it doesn’t hold you back, aswell as learn to recognise what it is that attracts you to not so nice guys, and learn how to stay away from that. Don’t strike out a future because of someone from the past. Don’t think that every man is a waste of space because there really are some very decent men out there! There are also idiots! I learned what I kept looking for in my bad choices, why, and opened myself to other people and traits just to see what happened. And now I know why nothing ever worked out before and me and my kids are amazingly happy! You owe it to yourself to deal with this and get it sorted, and counselling could at least be the start. Good luck

Well... I spent a long time working with an awful lot of men as a line female, in short term stays for work away from home. I saw my colleagues with their wives and families and they were all jolly nice blokes. Rather like my own dh. Get them away from home and there was a general metaphorsis in about 75% of them. Completely unrecognizable. We’d eat together and socialize together. (I was more big sister (their boss) so was untouchable in a relationship way (although it didn’t stop them all) ).
It has certainly made me wary of nice blokes. I know what they are like off leash.
We all have aspects of our personalities that we nice up for some people, and different roles that we play in different relationships.
I sort of thought that mostly they would gel together in a body, but apparently not. Mr lovely can indeed be an asshat when his wife and kids aren’t watching.

People are people. Some are nice, some are nasty, some are ignorant, some are wise, some are kind, some are selfish.

Nothing to do with gender, sex, sexual orientation, race, age or ethnicity.

How can anyone say this with a straight face? It sounds like something a child would say.

@SlothSlothSloth

Why is it embarrassing?

It is embarrassing because the parallels elude you or your list of banal phrases can't address them?

I don't think I'm playing a trump card. I think you have a fortunately unusual view of the world. Good luck to your step son (and husband).

@TheStoic

You can learn a lot by looking at the world from the eyes of a child. They aren't born racist or homophobic or sexist or religious or Tory / Labour voters. They judge on merit.

So, you think that nasty, ignorant and selfish people are the way they are because of sexual orientation, race or ethnicity?

Myrelationshipisweird I don't know any women who do those things, to be honest. I know I don't.

You can learn a lot by looking at the world from the eyes of a child. They aren't born racist or homophobic or sexist or religious or Tory / Labour voters. They judge on merit.

You also have to grow up at some point. Do you not read newspapers, listen to the radio, go on social media, look out your window? Ignorance is bliss, I guess. But it's also just ignorance.

Yes. No. Yes. Yes. Yes.

So, you think that nasty, ignorant and selfish people are the way they are because of sexual orientation, race or ethnicity?

Hi, *@carolmusic *

The first thing to say is there is no law telling you you must like men. They are not all bad and some are even very nice, but if your experiences have left you with bad feelings then that is simply how it is.

If people are on here telling you you must get therapy or whatever because it’s not normal, then fuck that. What’s ‘normal’ after all, other than the consensus of the majority.

So. It might help you to address the reasons why you dislike men so much, and then again it may not.

The bottom line is that your experience of the world is as valid as anyone else’s and no one on here can dictate how you should interpret those experiences.

If you really think some therapy would help then go for it. But disliking men isn’t some kind of ‘fault’ in your character; it’s something your experiences have instilled in you.

So, you think that nasty, ignorant and selfish people are the way they are because of sexual orientation, race or ethnicity?

No I don’t. That’s kind of the point. I notice you didn’t ask about sex or gender. Why is that?

"That’s kind of the point."

What is? A genuine question.

"I notice you didn’t ask about sex or gender. Why is that?"

Because your answer is obvious. You (or others on the thread) clearly do think that "men as a class are bad" / ruining the world, responsible for all evil etc and any questioning of this is shut down with "haha, you said NAMALT!" or similar.

Arguing and debating with people with a mindset like @sloths is so similar to the spate of religious threads a few weeks ago. Their kind of anit-man stance is so entrenched and their minds so shut off to any other thoughts or opinions that there's no point engaging.

You (or many on this thread) do think that "nasty, ignorant and selfishness" is a common trait among men so I didn't bother asking.

Maybe it's worth asking you.

Do you think that "Some are nice, some are nasty, some are ignorant, some are wise, some are kind, some are selfish." has something to do with sex / gender?

Intelligence (ignorance vs wiseness) is down to sex? Kindness? Selfishness?

Have i completely misunderstood the point you were making?