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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not agree with 'happy mum, happy baby'

229 replies

user1471506568 · 20/02/2018 10:27

Hard to articulate this without coming across as being intentionally offensive/goady but have been thinking about this issue a lot lately and would love to hear other people's thoughts.

Basically I keep seeing the phrase 'happy mother, happy baby' banded around in debates about loads of topics and it seems to almost be used as a means to justify whatever decision a parent makes as being best for the family. However the big assumption underlying this whole theory is that keeping mum happy is always the most important thing that contributes to a baby's happiness, but this can't always be the case and to what extent does this mantra let plain old selfishness creep in? Scientific research often tells us that some things are more beneficial for our children than other things and as our children are completely dependent and can't decide for themselves, should we not be taking more notice of this research rather than simply doing what suits us as adults best and what makes us happy?

I guess it's on my mind at the moment as I feel like I have to a certain extent sacrificed a lot of my happiness in order to make what I think is the best decision for my kids. Many of these decisions have come at a huge personal cost to me and I struggle everyday but I honestly do it because I think my choices are best for my kids.

So for me actually that phrase irritates me as it implies that it is easy to somehow achieve the dream where everyone in a family is equally happy and a baby or child's needs and wants can be met without anybody else's (usually the mother's) needs and wants being sacrificed. I think that this is damaging and gives parents an unrealistic idea of what parenting is like and also will be hijacked by some so that they can maintain their own happiness at the cost of their children's.

OP posts:
splendide · 21/02/2018 08:05

www.laleche.org.uk/bf-postnatal-depression/

This is where I saw it. Of course everyone is different but I found it really a bit of a beacon to hang on to. I remember thinking that I won’t feel like this forever and that my baby would be ok. I didn’t really believe it at the time, it was like a mantra.

TheDailyMailIsADisgustingRag · 21/02/2018 08:10

@splendide

I imagine you’re right about infants tbh and it’s important not to make mums feel guilty for having PND. As if they haven’t got enough stress!

And PND is different to unhappiness imo and a million miles away from the competitive, martyrish, “I’ve sacrificed so much for my kids” crap which seems to be touted out by some parents, even to their own adult children. I think it makes parenthood into a competitive sport and doesn’t result in happier children ime.

Brokenbiscuit · 21/02/2018 08:12

I guess it's on my mind at the moment as I feel like I have to a certain extent sacrificed a lot of my happiness in order to make what I think is the best decision for my kids. Many of these decisions have come at a huge personal cost to me and I struggle everyday but I honestly do it because I think my choices are best for my kids.

That's exactly what my lovely mum did many years ago, when DSis and I were kids, and we are all still paying the price almost half a century later. Honestly, I really wish that she had prioritised her own happiness much more, as it would have been so much better for all of us. Her mental health suffered terribly, and we all felt the impact of that. Still do....

Sarahh2014 · 21/02/2018 08:20

I don't like that one but I do like 'happy wife happy life' I've quoted this many a time to dh 😉

user1471506568 · 21/02/2018 09:21

Broken - yes I know exactly what you mean and can see how sacrificing one's own happiness in that way can be counterproductive and not make your children happy at all. I definitely won't be holding my sacrifices against my kids and have made sure that I have not sacrificed anything that will materially affect my mental health or that will breed resentment or bitterness. However I do find some aspects hard and I think that's fine. I don't need to be happy all the time and if I gain the ultimate satisfaction that I have parented my children how I wanted to then I think I will find it all worthwhile.

I have been really interested in the posters who suggest they haven't really had to sacrifice very much at all. Made me question whether some of it is just perspective or if some people just lead lives that are more compatible with their babies and therefore both people's needs can be met more easily. Also maybe some babies are more adaptable/easier so don't need the strict routine, constant holding, special diets, feeding/sleep interventions etc that other babies need that can really impede on a parent's lifestyle. In those cases I can definitely see how 'happy mum, happy baby' could seem more attainable

OP posts:
TheDailyMailIsADisgustingRag · 21/02/2018 10:10

I agree with your last post op^^. I remember having dc1 and the little sacrifices I had to make seemed a lot bigger, as my life then was less compatible with my baby’s. Also, she wasn’t a good sleeper or feeder and we had both been really poorly after dodgy birth. I’ve been a sahm now for years and just had dc2 4 weeks ago and I think this time the little adjustments we’ve had to make haven’t seemed quite so earth shattering, so happy mum and well cared for baby are a bit easier to attain.

windchimesabotage · 21/02/2018 10:14

well its more nuanced than that isnt it? But the phrase is generally correct in that if you are making yourself very unhappy your child will pick up on that and it will effect them badly. I think that is the point of the phrase. Not just 'do whatever you want, you come first!' I think it exists to point out that you do need to factor in your own needs to some extent because ruining yourself will do no one any favours.

SersioulycanitgetWORSE · 21/02/2018 10:15

I always thought it meant as usually babies main care giver and the source of food usually for the first few months, if Mum is a sobbing un happy wreck - shes not going to be a great rock for the baby....

If mum is comfortable, looked after and happy that will surely help her do the massive overwhelming job of keeping a small baby alive?

In my mind I am directly thinking of all those times when F time mums are harranged and upset by family etc when they have just given birth....as if having a baby isnt enough pressure on someone!

TiggerSnooze · 21/02/2018 17:54

I don't know - maybe a better expression would be 'unhappy mum, unhappy baby / child' but I think the sentiment is right.
People who are genuinely using it to justify very selfish behaviour are, unfortunately, likely to behave very selfishly anyway, and, fortunately, pretty rare. Most people would do almost anything to genuinely help their kids if they could (financially etc), and that's where it comes from: the pressure to be a martyr and the mummy guilt can be huge. Look after yourself and give yourself a break when it all feels too much x

howrudeforme · 21/02/2018 19:02

Well when my baby born my marriage broke down - this unhappy mum brought up a very happy baby.

Rabblemum · 21/02/2018 19:58

Broken nights, sore boobs and a screaming baby won’t make you happy all the time. This saying is only good for quoting to your partner when you need a candlelit bath and some cuddles.

squeekums · 21/02/2018 21:14

I have no issue wuth the saying, hell ive used it
When i was questioned why i didnt bf, well simply happy mum, happy bub broken down. I could have battled and wasted time pushing sh*t up a hill or i could go nope i need a break, i need to be able to share feeding, i was much better off for it. Everyone was happy and healthy
Ive said it when i get questioned why i was back to being a carnie on weekends when dd was a baby, well money and i need the break, happy mum happy baby

The people who i find generally dont like the saying, are the martyrs who think mum should sacrafice everything to make her kids happy, even if it leaves them a wreck. Thats not a good mother, that just sets all up for disaster

Brokenbiscuit · 21/02/2018 23:41

Broken - yes I know exactly what you mean and can see how sacrificing one's own happiness in that way can be counterproductive and not make your children happy at all. I definitely won't be holding my sacrifices against my kids and have made sure that I have not sacrificed anything that will materially affect my mental health or that will breed resentment or bitterness. However I do find some aspects hard and I think that's fine. I don't need to be happy all the time and if I gain the ultimate satisfaction that I have parented my children how I wanted to then I think I will find it all worthwhile.

Well, I truly hope that you're right, OP, and that you will find any sacrifices to have been worthwhile in the long run. Obviously, I don't really know the kind of sacrifices that you're making so it's hard to comment, but there was something about the way you worded your OP that set off alarm bells for me. Please do think carefully about whatever it is that you have given up and what that means to you, and bear in mind that feelings can change over time.

In my mum's case, her greatest regret was giving up her career to stay at home with us when we were little. I think she actually enjoyed it when we were younger, and she definitely felt that she wanted to be there for us. She was an amazing, loving, nurturing mum. However, as we got older, and we needed her less, she started to feel differently. She started to worry that her life would be empty when we left. She wanted more for herself but she didn't know how to get it. She wanted to go back to work but she had been out of it for too long and had totally lost her confidence.

She became very depressed, especially after my sister left home. She tried really hard not to let it affect us, but the more she tried to hide it, the more difficult it was for us to cope with. I felt terribly guilty for all that she had given up, and personally responsible for making her happy again. That was an impossible task, and quite a lot of pressure for a young kid. My teenage years were spent trying to boost her confidence and keep her on an even keel as best I could.

She reached crisis point when I left home as well, and I felt utterly shit about it. I thought it was my fault. Thankfully, with medical intervention, she did eventually get much better, but she has never fully recovered. Her regrets constantly come back to haunt her. She adores her family and she is an amazing mum and grandma, but I have finally realised that none of that will ever fill the gaping hole that she perceives in her life. I will never be able to understand or fathom the true depths of her regret, because she can barely bring herself to talk about it. She is a very talented and intelligent woman, and she feels acutely that she has squandered her potential, that she has wasted this one shot at life. And as she gets older, she realises more and more painfully that there is no going back. And for all I try to point out all of the things that she has contributed and achieved - as a mum, as a grandma, as a volunteer in the local community - I now understand that none of it really registers because she can only focus on the things that she could have done but didn't.

And I find that, thirty years on, I'm still trying to fix it for her and I still can't do it. It makes me desperately sad - and yes, I do still feel a little guilty. So please, consider the needs of your children first, of course, but please think very, very carefully about the long term implications of giving up stuff that really matters to you. You may not be doing your children any favours in the long run.

melonscoffer · 22/02/2018 01:13

bakedappleflavour
I just knew that the abusive parent theme would be a retort from someone.

I very nearly put at the bottom of my post
" in abusive circumstances obviously the children should not stay"

I then decided not to - due to it being bloody obvious.

I was assuming that most on here have the wisdom to know that I was not referring to staying and enduring abuse.
It's is surely patently obvious that I would not condone staying when abuse is present.

mrsmuddlepies · 22/02/2018 02:14

I also hate the phrase 'happy wife, happy life'. Used to justify the woman dictating every thing in a relationship.

user1471506568 · 22/02/2018 05:01

broken - thank you for sharing your story. I can identify with certain elements and definitely want to avoid feeling like your mum does in the future. I hope I have put things in place to avoid this but all the same definitely food for thought.

OP posts:
Brokenbiscuit · 22/02/2018 07:11

User, at the end of the day, I don't suppose any of us really know how we are going to feel in the future about the choices that we're making right now. What I have learnt from watching my mum, though, is that it's vital to pay attention to any nagging doubts that we encounter as we go along, as they might be telling us something really important. Ultimately, however you choose to live your life, I hope that you are able to do it in a way that's right for both you and your little ones.

SharronNeedles · 22/02/2018 08:02

Tbf, I have seen (on nm!!) A woman use that phrase to justify drinking through pregnancy. The stress of being pregnant was all too much for her and a glass of wine or two a night helped calm her down.
So rather than dealing with her own problems and stresses, she decided to put herself first, after all, happy mum happy baby.
I understand the phrase being used to support mothers who are desperately struggling with breastfeeding for example, but like with anything these days, we need to idiot proof it so that people like the woman I mentioned don't think it means 'do whatever the hell you want!'

C0untDucku1a · 22/02/2018 08:06

Ive seen it used to justify smoking in pregnancy too. Along with it would be worse for the baby to give up because the baby would be affected by the stress Hmm

Rumpledfaceskin · 22/02/2018 08:44

I’ve heard that so many times. ‘The doctor told me quitting altogether would be worse for the baby than just cutting down’ whatever, keep telling yourself that.

Lillyringlet · 22/02/2018 09:40

Honestly I have to say this phase has been a life line for me. I am someone from an abusive family background so often will put everything and anyone above my own wants and needs.

I did this so much that one day I didn't eat or drink any thing during a heat wave because I was just putting my baby first in everything.

I threw up from dehydration that I started to have to set alarms to remind me to eat. I had to go to cbt and remember that if I am happy and healthy, that I can be the best mum for my little girl.

Happy mummy, happy baby means I took the time to go to therapy, and let the horse work slide every so often so that I can do something for me when baby is asleep, or even go to the loo and try not to feeling guilty that I'm not watching her 24/7.

It is not a phase for everyone but for me it means I can tell my husband that I need some me time every few months or take the time to deal with my emotional crap as I know I'll be a much better mum if I do.

TheDailyMailIsADisgustingRag · 22/02/2018 09:55

Ive seen it used to justify smoking in pregnancy too. Along with it would be worse for the baby to give up because the baby would be affected by the stress

I’ve heard this argument re smoking. Do they actually say “happy mum, happy baby” in those circumstances though? I can’t imagine a mum who is happy that she smoked through pregnancy. Most smokers I know are pretty unhappy that they’re addicted tbh. That’s without being pregnant. It’s not a nice thing to be addicted to. It kills you slowly and painfully and costs a bomb.

UrgentScurryfunge · 22/02/2018 13:39

In the early days of parenting, it is very easy to lose persepective of the big picture and there are some very martyrish approaches out there which make it very easy to self impose guilt.

A mum who is so afraid of letting her baby cry at all that she hasn't met her basic needs of hygiene and food/ drink will not be happy. If breastfeeding, compromising your own needs to the point of exhaustion could impact milk supply. A few minutes to meet those needs may be an inconvenience to a baby who is hungry/ needs a cuddle/ nappy change, but in the never ending cycle of meeting a young baby's needs, they won't be harmed by a slight delay and will be better served by a mum who hasn't neglected her own needs all day.

Leaving a baby/ child secure in the care of someone responsible while you address your own wants/ needs is also healthy. My DCs are now primary age but appreciate that I have my own interests and life in balance with theirs. I am a happier and more interesting person for it.

I try to look at things from a whole family perspective. The DCs are important but decisions need to be made in balance for everyone in the family. I could make them temporarily happy by buying every toy they want, or trying every sport or letting them live on pizza but a long term happy family/ mum / children's life needs to be sustainable. Putting the baby/ child first every time can be as blinkered as the extremes of maternal behaviour that have been referred to.

The spectrum of good enough parenting is broad and personal to family circumstances. The minority that are genuinely selfish and rourinely prioritise their own interests above that of the children will do so regardless of people saying "happy mum, happy baby" or not.

goose1964 · 22/02/2018 13:42

it should be happy baby, happy mum

CamelFlarge · 22/02/2018 14:48

OP I agree with you, particularly where there is clear scientific evidence (eg methods of feeding, weaning age etc) but you'll find yours is a deeply unpopular view, particularly on any mainstream "mummy" forums.