To not agree with 'happy mum, happy baby'

[user1471506568]

Hard to articulate this without coming across as being intentionally offensive/goady but have been thinking about this issue a lot lately and would love to hear other people's thoughts.

Basically I keep seeing the phrase 'happy mother, happy baby' banded around in debates about loads of topics and it seems to almost be used as a means to justify whatever decision a parent makes as being best for the family. However the big assumption underlying this whole theory is that keeping mum happy is always the most important thing that contributes to a baby's happiness, but this can't always be the case and to what extent does this mantra let plain old selfishness creep in? Scientific research often tells us that some things are more beneficial for our children than other things and as our children are completely dependent and can't decide for themselves, should we not be taking more notice of this research rather than simply doing what suits us as adults best and what makes us happy?

I guess it's on my mind at the moment as I feel like I have to a certain extent sacrificed a lot of my happiness in order to make what I think is the best decision for my kids. Many of these decisions have come at a huge personal cost to me and I struggle everyday but I honestly do it because I think my choices are best for my kids.

So for me actually that phrase irritates me as it implies that it is easy to somehow achieve the dream where everyone in a family is equally happy and a baby or child's needs and wants can be met without anybody else's (usually the mother's) needs and wants being sacrificed. I think that this is damaging and gives parents an unrealistic idea of what parenting is like and also will be hijacked by some so that they can maintain their own happiness at the cost of their children's.

I can see how the “happy mum, happy baby” approach might be unhelpful in cases like @splendide and @anelderlylady’s. But, equally, I was on another thread recently where two mothers said that they felt suicidal and put it down to the pressures of bfing. One of them said a mw had basically told her it was ok to stop and it was a lifesaver. So I can’t get too critical of HCPs for sometimes saying this.

YANBU.

I see it as just another weapons grade stick - one with several pointy bits...

I wasn't happy when my DD was a baby, I was depressed. On occasion I was suicidal. I'll have to put up with the guilt I feel for not being as emotionally available to my baby as I feel I should have been all my life.

It also carries overtones of baby happiness being a women's issue.

Finally it is just factually incorrect. Both because some babies are just less happy than others, and also because things like illegal substance abuse make people happy.

I hate it and think people should take the small amount of time to type out 'When making decisions about your family it is important to factor in the impact they will have on everyone and not just the baby. This is because the emotional state of the adults in the family also directly impact the baby.''

I agree OP...

The only people I know who would say it is selfish are the judgemental types who think they're superior because they e.g extended BF, co-slept for years, didn't want anyone to babysit even for a few hours till over 12 mths, didn't have a night away from the child for years etc etc and think anyone who isn't like them isn't putting the child first

^^ this. Couldn’t have put it better myself. I think it can also stem from jealousy. Most of the above doesn’t make a mouse shit of difference to the well being of a child and I think deep down inside parents know this but still like to make others feel guilty, perhaps to make their sacrifice feel like it was worth something and of huge benefit to their child when deep down inside they know it wasn’t. It was just a perfectly valid parenting choice they made, that’s all it was.

Obviously parents who drink excessively, leave their children constantly to get pissed, spend money on crap for themselves when their DC are going without basic things etc is a different thing altogether. But surely that’s just obvious.

I have seen it used in situations where ultimately we know these things will have no meaningful impact on outcomes. So whether you work or stay at home, whether you use a routine or go for attachment style, whether you breast feed or bottle feed, etc all have little to no impact on the ultimate outcome. So the mother making enormous sacrifices for any of these type of things will likely end up with a sense of resentment for her and ultimately no change one way or the other for her children.

There are many many ways to raise happy children. There is no prescription we can all follow to the letter to guarantee our child will be smart and healthy and well-adjusted. It just doesn't work like that. Barring neglect and abuse - where I don't think anyone would say "happy mum..." - then the inputs in the form of parenting choices, have very little impact on the outcomes. So in most cases, the choice that suits the parents is the best choice for that child. Does a child reay benefit from a reluctant SAHM who is bored out of her mind and who resents losing her career, for example? Would that child not be better with a fulfilled working mother who cherished family time when not working?

OP if you feel you are making huge personal sacrifice and you feel this makes you a better parent, then I'd suggest you might want to take a step back. And ask what you are really hoping to gain from it, and are you realistically gaining that?

I HATE it.

It's just giving people an excuse to not feel like a shit parent if they want to do something that people might judge them for.

Want to have a drink? Happy mum, happy baby!
Want to quit breastfeeding? Happy mum, happy baby!
Want to let your baby cry all night? Happy mum, happy baby!

Just own your damn decisions, don't play it off as it's making your baby happier..........

It’s like all these phrases - food before one is just for fun! It bloody well isn’t, babies iron and zinc stores start to deplete around six months and they need food.

They’re phrases that have some truth to them (if you’re suffering with terrible PND as killing yourself trying to do something that just isn’t working, that stress will be picked up on by baby - baby will be much happier if you are relaxed and happy) and then regurgitated for all kinds of scenarios for which it wasn’t intended.

I should also add its a response to people taking things to extremes also. You see threads on here sometimes where the mother hasn't urinated all day long because her baby wants to be held all the time, and she is bursting for a wee when her partner walks in the door from work. Or women on completely unsustainable feed-pump-feed regimes that leave zero time for sleeping and that clearly aren't doing much to help the breastfeeding difficulties either. Or all sorts of similar things where a tiny bIt of perspective is missing. I don't think I've ever said it myself, but thinking of all the parents I know - the opposite is certainly true. I can't think of any "unhappy" baby whose parents are happy.

Everyone seems to take the saying so literal.
I thought it was to emphasise the importance of mums having some 'me time', taking a break and remembering to look after themselves too. By doing so baby will feel the benefits.

Do people really resent their own children for sacrifices they've had to make though?

YANBU.

I think it totally depends how it is used!

If a mother is struggling and feeling guilty over just having an hour to have coffee while granny takes the baby out in the buggy, then it’s good.

If it’s about indulging a mum who just leaves her baby to go off out every night leaving her with not prepared siblings, then perhaps not!

Only time ive ever heard it was when I was struggling with PND. It involved sleeping decisions and breastfeeding decisions as I was seriously struggling. That's the only time I've really put "myself" first as I wouldnt be here if it carries on the way it was going. I've never heard it day to day.

I think YABU
Everything we know about child development suggests that we don't have to be "good" mothers. We only have to be "good enough".
And "good enough" is such a wide bandwidth.
Once you've made sure that what your doing isn't abusive or neglectful (and by that I mean actually neglectful not mumsnet "fruitshoots-are-abusive" neglectful) you can more or less do what you like.
OP has said she firmly believes that her choices are "the best" for her children. I don't believe there is a best. There's only a "best in the circumstances". And part of those circumstances are Mums mental health and well being.
My Ds said to me once (on the way to playgroup) "I am going to see the big boys and Dd is going to see the babies and you are going to see the Mummies"
That's how it should be- with everyone's needs being met.

It's a stupid saying.

The mum could be happy doing drugs and inviting strange men home at all hours, doesn't make a happy baby.

Hmmm. I think I understand what the OP means. Honestky, there have been times when i’ve Heard that expression and thought, no, you just want to do that and are justifying it to yourself. The examples that immediately spring to mind are a Mum who left her 4 month old for a week for a hen do (she said she regretted it later) and a SAHM I know vaguely who at one point had both preschoolers in nursery 8-6 several days a week so she could have a ‘break’. Um, that’s more break than parenting!

Sorry if that sounds judgemental but yeah, those were two occasions when I would rather make the ‘sacrifices’ I have than be a ‘happy mum’... I think sometimes people say it knowing they are being selfish.

You have put into words something I have been thinking.
I've seen it used to encourage any behaviour that is being garnered advice.

Happy Mother does not make for happy children. Once you become a Mother then your childrens contentment and security is your responsibility and duty.
Unhappy Mother? Then do something about it for yourself, something that will not change your childrens lives.

Particularly disturbing are the mothers who want to leave their husband/partner and are encouraged to do so.

There are lots of suggestions that living in any type of accomadation at all and struggling will be such a relief to Mother that the children will follow on to be happy there.

The children will not be happier in reduced/changed circumstances, taken away from their bedrooms and familiar surroundings.
The children will not be happier leaving their Father and pining for him because Mum is discontented with her lot and life is not as she envisioned.

Children are happy when the life we create for them is maintained and not thrown into chaos for the sake of a bit of unhappiness on the Mothers part.

Obviously in the case of breastfeeding etc and other smaller personal issues then no harm done to make changes for a happier daily life.

accommodation

The examples that immediately spring to mind are a Mum who left her 4 month old for a week for a hen do (she said she regretted it later)

penelope I left my 4 month old with my parents for 5 days whilst I went on holiday with DH. Why does that make me selfish? Can you please explain because I’m really not seeing it

She was with my parents who lived with her for the first 2 months of her life, who she saw all the time and was perfectly happy with them. What’s the problem??

I have a problem with it from the inverse.

DD1 was colicky and cried all the time. I was stressed and exhausted. Multiple people told me I was going to transfer my stress to the baby and so I needed to “get it together.”

It’s BS to put all the responsibility of a baby’s happiness on the mother. Some things are good for babies and some aren’t. As long as what you’re doing doesn’t compromise your child’s health and safety, your personal happiness is probably not a huge priority with regards to the baby’s well-being. I’m not talking about PND or serious mental health issues, just standard stress.

IMO that means making certain choices solely to reduce the mum’s stress is probably not necessary. Sleep training at under 3 months or quitting BF because “happy mum happy baby” just rubs me the wrong way. Your primary responsibility to your child isn’t to be the most relaxed happiest least stressed person. I don’t even know where that idea has come from.

The Mum I was thinking of deliberately didn’t breastfeed so that she would be able to go on holiday... I think that’s a bit selfish considering the benefits the baby could have had so she had a week in the sun?!

Also generally I just think night Wakings and colic etc are definitely a parent’s responsibility! But I didn’t have anyone who would have watched mine as small babies anyway, maybe it’s different if you know you have the option. I guess I just think, why go away when they’re so little rather than wait?

Can anyone imagine a group of fathers debating the exact degree to which its acceptable to prioritise their own well being?

Sorry if that sounds judgemental but yeah, those were two occasions when I would rather make the ‘sacrifices’ I have than be a ‘happy mum’... I think sometimes people say it knowing they are being selfish.

But you said the first mum regretted her decision, so she wasn’t making herself happy there was she?

And lots of people spend more time without their dcs than they do with them as they have to work.

If you would prefer to be the mum who sacrifices than the “happy mum”, then you’re actually saying that what made you HAPPY was to make whatever sacrifices you wanted to, no? And that’s fine.

There’s something so neatly mouthed and unhealthy about someone proudly claiming that they aren’t happy because they’ve made sacrifices for their children . My parents made sacrifices for me. I make sacrifices for my dc. But I’m still a happy mum. Very much so!

Very weird to judge women for striving to be happy.

But, some people are judgemental about whatever other mums do; have a career, stay at home, work part time, extended breastfeeding, (I have actually seen this called self indulgent on MN ), formula feeding. A mother's place is in the wrong after all !

*mealy mouthed

(Fuck off autocorrect)

I knew it wouldn't be long.

Don't leave the baby with anyone else, don't want time to yourself, don't ever want an alcoholic drink, make sure you stay in a shitty relationship that is making you miserable. It's probably only another 15 years or so till the children move out and if you can't sacrifice your happiness for that long then you're just selfish.

Happy baby, happy children, happy partners
, who ever gives a fuck about Mummy?

" I am regularly achingly unhappy and lonely, my children are for the most part oblivious."

the thing is, I don't agree that your children will be 'oblivious' to this. They may appear to be...but...