Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not agree with 'happy mum, happy baby'

229 replies

user1471506568 · 20/02/2018 10:27

Hard to articulate this without coming across as being intentionally offensive/goady but have been thinking about this issue a lot lately and would love to hear other people's thoughts.

Basically I keep seeing the phrase 'happy mother, happy baby' banded around in debates about loads of topics and it seems to almost be used as a means to justify whatever decision a parent makes as being best for the family. However the big assumption underlying this whole theory is that keeping mum happy is always the most important thing that contributes to a baby's happiness, but this can't always be the case and to what extent does this mantra let plain old selfishness creep in? Scientific research often tells us that some things are more beneficial for our children than other things and as our children are completely dependent and can't decide for themselves, should we not be taking more notice of this research rather than simply doing what suits us as adults best and what makes us happy?

I guess it's on my mind at the moment as I feel like I have to a certain extent sacrificed a lot of my happiness in order to make what I think is the best decision for my kids. Many of these decisions have come at a huge personal cost to me and I struggle everyday but I honestly do it because I think my choices are best for my kids.

So for me actually that phrase irritates me as it implies that it is easy to somehow achieve the dream where everyone in a family is equally happy and a baby or child's needs and wants can be met without anybody else's (usually the mother's) needs and wants being sacrificed. I think that this is damaging and gives parents an unrealistic idea of what parenting is like and also will be hijacked by some so that they can maintain their own happiness at the cost of their children's.

OP posts:
Incywincyteenyweeny · 20/02/2018 20:04

I see what you are saying user I agree.

Labradoodliedoodoo · 20/02/2018 20:05

I completely believe in this. I’m the opposite of selfish. It has taken me a long time to consider my personal needs important. And when I am truly happy (which is a state of mind rather then being related to any particular activity), my children are truly happy. Happiness is contagious. For me Emotional connection and being mentally present breeds happiness - which is what my kids also need to be happy.

Incywincyteenyweeny · 20/02/2018 20:08

If I’d continued breadfeeding I think I would have felt more content, as the studies all say that breastmilk is superior to formula. so I would have been happy in a content way knowing I was doing the best thing for baby.
But it gave me more immediate relief and short term happiness to stop feeding. That is what I did. There is no wrong or right. But I see what you are saying about mum may be happier knowing it’s making her less happy but better for baby. So that is separate to martyrdom.

BlurryFace · 20/02/2018 20:11

I've found the phrase very helpful actually, it helped me feel ok switching to FF, taking time for myself, sometimes letting the baby have jar food. And it is true, what good is it for a baby to have permanently stressed out mother?

LalaLeona · 20/02/2018 20:15

Gosh some of the things mumsnetters bellyache about astounds me. Who gives a monkeys about whether baby is ff or bf/co sleeping/sleep trained..as long as that child is loved and cared for. Just read a really harrowing article about Mexican babies from poor families being sold to perverts on the dark Web.. (wish I hadn't now) Really puts all our silly worries here in the UK into perspective. Sad

iammargesimpson · 20/02/2018 20:50

I haven't read all the replies but I would agree with 'happy mammy happy baby'. If we as parents don't look after our selves both physically and emotionally then how can we fully look after anyone else, especially an all consuming tiny newborn? As my mum would say 'you can't pour from an empty cup'!!

Amanduh · 20/02/2018 21:25

Ahh so we finally got round to it being a bf/ff issue then. Was a long detour.

Rainbowsandflowers78 · 20/02/2018 21:27

I was thinking of the Mums who disappear on holiday for 2/3 weeks actually saying it’s best for their kids that they leave them behind and have fun!

NotUmbongoUnchained · 20/02/2018 21:38

I often chant the phrase to myself when I’m eating their Easter eggs in secret.

eeanne · 21/02/2018 00:06

Ahh so we finally got round to it being a bf/ff issue then. Was a long detour.

I don’t think so.

I was recently on a thread where a mum was wondering why her baby wasn’t sleeping well. Turned out she and DH are keeping him in the living room with the telly on at night. I suggested perhaps try to put the baby in a dark quiet room to teach the difference between day and night. Watch Netflix with headphones.

There were several responses that the mum might compromise her mental health by not keeping her normal telly watching routine and it could make her depressed to have to watch Netflix quietly instead.

That to me is what “happy mum happy baby” has turned into. The idea that even the smallest sacrifice is not worth it IF it has any negative effect on the mum’s happiness.

Sleepyduvetday · 21/02/2018 00:22

I never thought 'happy mum happy baby', was to be taken literally.

I mean if what makes the mum happy is getting pissed and stoned while the baby lies crying in filth, then it doesn't really apply does it?

I always took it to mean the mother taking care of herself as in, taking a nap if she needs to, not feeling guilty leaving the baby with granny while she gets a few hours to herself, stuff like that.

Legwarmersareohsoeighties · 21/02/2018 00:43

Well, I had a crap childhood with a very stressed mum who couldn't cope with lots of things. I remember vividly asking santa (in a kind of praying Way) at night (and not just on Christmas Eve, but many nights) for my mum to be happy. At birthday parties when blowing out candles, that would b my secret wish. It's all i ever wanted. I did not want her driving off in middle of night threatening to kill herself. I did not want her arguing with step dad. She worried about money all the time, paying the mortgage etc... but I'd have happily lived in a tent or a hostel just to have seen her happy. She never got that Sad

My mum is still not happy. Sad

badgermushroom · 21/02/2018 00:55

Disagree. I generally find the sayings that get banded about a bit twee anyway but this one resonates.

Having a newborn and PND, I stopped eating and lost three stone by the time she was a month old. I never let her cry and cared for her relentlessly no matter how I felt. I wouldn't let DH do night feeds or accept help as I felt so guilty. But I was a complete and utter wreck.

In a plane decompression you're instructed to put your oxygen mask on before helping others. Being a parent is the same. It's not about being 'selfish' by any stretch.

FastWindow · 21/02/2018 01:06

badger your plane decompression analogy completely illustrates why I believe in happy mum happy baby.

If you can't be sure of your own health, mental or physical, how can you be in the best shape to transmit calm and support to a tiny one and good solid support to an older one?

I'm fairly sure the happy mum thing does not include 'party all night do what you like' it's a state of mind that means security and stability.

FastWindow · 21/02/2018 01:08

badger not meaning any personal denigration. PND is a kick in the guts. I hope you're OK.

eeanne · 21/02/2018 04:33

I don’t think it’s only used in cases where the mother is depressed or starving herself. That’s not a matter of happiness but survival and health.

People on MN have a tendency to go to extremes, I don’t get it. No one thinks mums should be suidical and emaciated.

OwtFerNowt · 21/02/2018 05:20

My mother has never been happy either. In my last conversation with her before going NC, she rather self-pityingly said, ‘a mother is only as happy as her unhappiest child’, and I replied (a bit clumsily), ‘and a child is only as happy as its unhappy mother’. I have no idea what she meant by her comment, but I meant, I am getting away from your misery in order to be happy for my children.

It’s complicated, and I don’t think anyone sensible takes the phrase from the OP to mean a mum should make herself happy at the expense of her child.

TheDailyMailIsADisgustingRag · 21/02/2018 06:21

I'm fairly sure the happy mum thing does not include 'party all night do what you like'

Exactly. I honestly don’t know if the op and others are being deliberately obtuse, or maybe it’s just that they come from a completely different world than I do.

I actually think that mothers who frequently go out to get steaming drunk every night and do so at the expense of their childrens’ wellbeing, are probably deeply unhappy. Happy mums are better mums. God spare us from the martyr mothers. I am so glad mine wasn’t like that. Anyone I know who has a martyr mum is a little traumatised by their upbringing and has a piss poor relationship with their self sainted mum. Also think a lot of the mums, (dads too who are apparently immune from the op’s contempt Hmm), who declare that they have made huge personal sacrifices often have done no more than the average, they just like going on about it. In one case I’m thinking of in particular, she did a lot less than your average parent for her dcs, she just enjoys banging on about her personal sacrifices as a mother and getting all pursed lipped about other mothers’ inferiority.

Rumpledfaceskin · 21/02/2018 06:26

Of course it’s generally bullshit. Some days it would make me happy to stick my dd in front of the tv all day so I can do what the hell I like.

I think people use it most on the topic of breastfeeding when a mother is driven completely to the edge. It’s intended to be kind and there’s obviously no advantage to a baby if their mum can’t enjoy them due to feeding concerns. I still dislike the phrase though.

CobraKai · 21/02/2018 06:28

Children don't really give a shit either. As long as they're fed, warm, safe, encouraged and loved they don't care if you breast fed, had them sleep with you for years or 'wore' them.

I know I was FF and don't care. I don't know anything else about what 'sacrifices' my Mum made and I wouldn't give her a round of applause if she decided to tell me.

Labradoodliedoodoo · 21/02/2018 06:50

Children and babies usually instinctively know how their careers feel

Bakedappleflavour · 21/02/2018 06:58

The children will not be happier leaving their Father and pining for him because Mum is discontented with her lot and life is not as she envisioned.

As someone who grew up with an abusive father, I assure you we were happier in a one bedroomed flat without him.

splendide · 21/02/2018 07:40

f you can't be sure of your own health, mental or physical, how can you be in the best shape to transmit calm and support to a tiny one and good solid support to an older one?

I understand it’s meant to be supportive but this is actually not true and knowing it wasn’t true is what I clung to when I was depressed. Studies show that babies who’s mothers had PND and breastfed have no discernible differences in their outcomes or brain patterns than those with non depressed mothers. The idea they’ll know you’re miserable and it will damage them is not true.

splendide · 21/02/2018 07:43

Sorry should say I’m talking about infants and mother with PND rather than older children.

Incywincyteenyweeny · 21/02/2018 08:01

Really interested in the studies you mention splendide.
Do you have links?
Bf went wrong with the first but will try again next time.

Swipe left for the next trending thread