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Original poster

To not agree with 'happy mum, happy baby'

229 replies

user1471506568 · 20/02/2018 10:27

Hard to articulate this without coming across as being intentionally offensive/goady but have been thinking about this issue a lot lately and would love to hear other people's thoughts.

Basically I keep seeing the phrase 'happy mother, happy baby' banded around in debates about loads of topics and it seems to almost be used as a means to justify whatever decision a parent makes as being best for the family. However the big assumption underlying this whole theory is that keeping mum happy is always the most important thing that contributes to a baby's happiness, but this can't always be the case and to what extent does this mantra let plain old selfishness creep in? Scientific research often tells us that some things are more beneficial for our children than other things and as our children are completely dependent and can't decide for themselves, should we not be taking more notice of this research rather than simply doing what suits us as adults best and what makes us happy?

I guess it's on my mind at the moment as I feel like I have to a certain extent sacrificed a lot of my happiness in order to make what I think is the best decision for my kids. Many of these decisions have come at a huge personal cost to me and I struggle everyday but I honestly do it because I think my choices are best for my kids.

So for me actually that phrase irritates me as it implies that it is easy to somehow achieve the dream where everyone in a family is equally happy and a baby or child's needs and wants can be met without anybody else's (usually the mother's) needs and wants being sacrificed. I think that this is damaging and gives parents an unrealistic idea of what parenting is like and also will be hijacked by some so that they can maintain their own happiness at the cost of their children's.

OP posts:
Tinkerbec · 20/02/2018 17:03

Cobra

Exactly and if someone was looking for support and maybe just thinking of leaving a relationship then this may set them back.
Not helpful at all.

corythatwas · 20/02/2018 17:09

Quite a few babies end up dead because mum thinks it is selfish to try to leave an abusive relationship. Happened near us the other week. Or psychologically damaged for life, because of having watched mum beaten to death by dad (happened to a classmate of dd's)- because child having a dad is far more important than mum's wellbeing. Or just mistrustful of relationships for life because their mum stayed with a serial cheater "for the sake of the children" (happened to a friend of mine).

ijustwannadance · 20/02/2018 17:28

I don't understand those who think mothers that leave their baby for a while are selfish.
If help is available then why not make the most of it?

I am a better parent for taking a step back every so often and giving my brain a rest.

My baby is a few weeks old. She doesn't give a shit who she falls asleep on or who is holding her bottle. She has grandparents who want to help. My dad sat for 3 hours watching tv with her asleep on him after she finally dropped off after hours of screaming. He did this so I could also get some sleep, and because he loved getting to cuddle his GD.

ZZZZ1111 · 20/02/2018 17:30

My parents pressured me to stop breastfeeding when I struggled with it to start with. They told me 'happy mum happy baby'. However, persevering with bf and getting support with it meant that I went onto bf for two years (still going). It has made me happy and content, and become an important aspect of my parenting.

It's too simplistic to roll the phrase out as soon as a Mum struggles with bf as it doesn't look at the long term picture. Persevering with bf has made me happier than stopping would have done.

Mummadeeze · 20/02/2018 17:46

People will hate me for saying this but I was a very relaxed parent when my baby was little in that I had no routine really, I took her here there and everywhere with me, I breastfed her on the bus if I needed to, I let her sleep in her buggy whilst I was working, I took her on the tube to business appointments and around trade shows. It wasn't ideal in many ways but I had to be focussed on my business as well as her because it was my only income and I had no savings. I did also take her to some baby classes and did give her attention but she had to fit in with my routine rather than me with hers out of necessity. I may have been lucky but she was the most chilled out baby ever and happily accepted every situation I put her in. I can hardly ever remember her crying. I have always wondered if I really lucked out or whether my enforced parenting style at the time where I wasn't overthinking anything actually helped her be more relaxed.

DeleteOrDecay · 20/02/2018 18:10

Mummadeeze you were definitely lucky. Still props to you for carrying on with a business with a small baby in tow, that's no small featSmile

DianaPrincessOfThemyscira · 20/02/2018 18:14

I don’t think saying you make sacrifices for your kids benefit is the same at all.

It’s helpful when women post on here (all the time) about how they’re struggling with breastfeeding, genuinely falling into PND, but won’t give up because they feel they’ve failed if they don’t.

So I don’t have a problem with it. Mothers come in all shapes and sizes - not just selfish or self sacrificing.

Rainbowsandflowers78 · 20/02/2018 18:19

I agree - its what people use to justify selfishness.

Fortybingowings · 20/02/2018 18:27

People will ALWAYS be invested heavily in their own parenting choices. FF vs BF is the archetypical example, but equally could apply to baby led weaning vs spoon feeding or co-sleeping vs own room.
Don’t waste energy resenting those whose different parenting choices have made their lives easier just because you’re breaking your back to do it ‘your way’
DOI I’m definitely NOT a crunchy parent. Within reason much of what I’ve done is designed to make my life as easy as possible while ensuring my kids are warm, fed, loved and growing.

Iprefercoffeetotea · 20/02/2018 18:32

Clearly the phrase means within reason. I have heard it most often in the context of struggling with breastfeeding - a happy balanced mother bottle feeding will be better for baby than a stressed mother who can't feed her baby properly. In that context, happy mum means happy baby.

Clearly the mum who wants to go out partying every night until 4am and leave baby at home on its own is a different matter!

Common sense is (are) the watchword(s) here.

And I don't think being a martyr is something to aspire to.

Iprefercoffeetotea · 20/02/2018 18:36

I also think judicious selfishness is something you need at times - such as in the case of abusive relationships, or at the other end of the scale just leaving baby at nursery one morning a week so you can get your hair done or have a baby-free coffee with a friend or your own mum! You don't lose your own being because you have children - they are an (extremely important) addition to your life. But they are not your whole life.

OutyMcOutface · 20/02/2018 18:39

I think it's more meant as unhappy mothers have a detrimental effect on their children as opposed to mothers should put their happiness first.

BertieBotts · 20/02/2018 18:44

Yes - it's more like the opposite is true. Happy mum doesn't necessarily lead to a happy baby. But a struggling mum, unhappy mum, anxious mum, self doubting mum, depressed mum - she isn't going to have the mental resources to care for her baby as well as if she was coping better, happier, reassured, or receiving treatment for her illness.

IF something is making your life harder, but you feel you need to stick with it "for the baby", it is worth asking whether they're actually getting the benefit of it if you're miserable all the time.

Incywincyteenyweeny · 20/02/2018 18:50

It annoyed me because it was said to me by others (mil) to try and persuade me to do something (usually hand my newborn over).
For example, don’t breastfeed it’s taking it out of you. Put baby on bottle you have a night out and I will babysit for you.
Happy mum happy baby a night out is what you need!! As if!

Tinkerbec · 20/02/2018 19:06

Put baby on bottle you have a night out and I will babysit for you.
Happy mum happy baby a night out is what you need!! As if!

For some yes it is perfectly acceptable and exactly what they need. Saying ‘ as if’ sounds a bit martyr parenting to me but as previously said there is no right or wrong just common sense.

ZZZZ1111 · 20/02/2018 19:07

Agree incywincey - what some mums who want to bf need is someone to say 'you want to breastfeed? Great! how can I support you, how can I help you to get some sleep? What can I do for you around the house etc? Have you found a bf support group to go to? Have you seen a lactation consultant?' Absolutely mums need help for their mental health. But just 'happy mum happy baby - put him on the bottle' is not supportive of a mum wants to bf.

For me it also misses the fact that sure it could make the next few days/ weeks easier, but then in the long run some mums feel upset that they weren't able to bf or weren't given the right support. Better to offer mums the support to start with rather than just 'give up and you'll feel better'.

BertieBotts · 20/02/2018 19:08

Yes, if someone was saying to me "Go out! Give bottles!" etc and trying to justify it with happy mum happy baby I'd say "But that wouldn't make me happy."

puffyisgood · 20/02/2018 19:15

My personal favourite is when, particularly on the mumsnet relationships subforum, variants of that old chestnut are trotted out to encourage a moderately happy mother to run away with the poolboy or whatever.

Elizanotlittle · 20/02/2018 19:17

My personal favourite is when, particularly on the mumsnet relationships subforum, variants of that old chestnut are trotted out to encourage a moderately happy mother to run away with the poolboy or whatever.

Is this tongue in cheek?

I have never read this type of thing ever! Grin

Elizanotlittle · 20/02/2018 19:18

Yes, if someone was saying to me "Go out! Give bottles!" etc and trying to justify it with happy mum happy baby I'd say "But that wouldn't make me happy."

They probably think they are being helpful. After all we should all have a break sometimes.

Why wouldn't it make you happy? Why would it make your baby unhappy?

Incywincyteenyweeny · 20/02/2018 19:28

Tinkerbek - I didn’t mean to sound martyrish - I’m definitely not my breastfeeding didn’t last long for a few reasons. Ds was fully formula fed from a few weeks old.
I really don’t have any judgement how people feed.
What I meant by ‘what if’ is that I’d rather have had sleep if I was going to hand over my pfb than a night out! At that sleep deprived point in life recovering from an awful birth, sleep would be more appealing than a cider in the local.
But the persons in question didn’t really want to help me. Helping me would be you sleep I will keep baby here and wake you when they need fed. They were focused on taking my newborn and playing mummy for a night in their own home. And justifying it by ‘a night out will be good for you happy mum happy baby’. Saying is a load of rubbish imo.

Tinkerbec · 20/02/2018 19:34

At that sleep deprived point in life recovering from an awful birth, sleep would be more appealing than a cider in the local.

I agree with you there.

Original poster
user1471506568 · 20/02/2018 19:39

Another problem with the phrase is it leaves people open to accusations of martyrdom. If you accept that a happy mother is enough to make a baby happy then it's hard for a mother to justify why they would do something that isn't necessarily the best thing to do for their own happiness. The BFing examples really highlight that for me. Why preservere with something that hurts, leaves you responsible for most of the night feeds and can inhibit your freedom and independence. The answer is usually because the mother thinks the benefits (mostly for the baby) are worth it. If you agree with this or not, I think most people would think that a mother wasn't being a martyr through sticking with BFing through the hard times as their belief is genuinely held and it is worth it for them. Doesn't necessarily make them the embodiment of happiness though and some will see it as a sacrifice. Not one they hold over their children and one they freely make but still a sacrifice all the same.

OP posts:
TheDailyMailIsADisgustingRag · 20/02/2018 19:46

But op, like pps have said, their choice to continue bfing has made them “happy and content” and how they would have been less happy if they’d quit.

There’s a difference between being happy and being selfish.

Original poster
user1471506568 · 20/02/2018 20:02

thedaily - yes of course there is a difference and I wouldn't claim they're the same at all. What I would say though is that there is happiness that you can get from having your own individual wants and needs met and then there is happiness that can be derived from doing what you deem to be the best thing for your baby. Of course the two aren't mutually exclusive but neither do the two always overlap in my opinion. In the BFing example, yes the mother is happy as ultimately she is feeding the baby in the way she wants but she may still find day to day life hard and not feel consistently happy about what BFing entails for her. In that scenario I would say it was more 'happy baby, happy mum' and think 'happy mum, happy baby' is really misleading.

OP posts: