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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not agree with 'happy mum, happy baby'

229 replies

user1471506568 · 20/02/2018 10:27

Hard to articulate this without coming across as being intentionally offensive/goady but have been thinking about this issue a lot lately and would love to hear other people's thoughts.

Basically I keep seeing the phrase 'happy mother, happy baby' banded around in debates about loads of topics and it seems to almost be used as a means to justify whatever decision a parent makes as being best for the family. However the big assumption underlying this whole theory is that keeping mum happy is always the most important thing that contributes to a baby's happiness, but this can't always be the case and to what extent does this mantra let plain old selfishness creep in? Scientific research often tells us that some things are more beneficial for our children than other things and as our children are completely dependent and can't decide for themselves, should we not be taking more notice of this research rather than simply doing what suits us as adults best and what makes us happy?

I guess it's on my mind at the moment as I feel like I have to a certain extent sacrificed a lot of my happiness in order to make what I think is the best decision for my kids. Many of these decisions have come at a huge personal cost to me and I struggle everyday but I honestly do it because I think my choices are best for my kids.

So for me actually that phrase irritates me as it implies that it is easy to somehow achieve the dream where everyone in a family is equally happy and a baby or child's needs and wants can be met without anybody else's (usually the mother's) needs and wants being sacrificed. I think that this is damaging and gives parents an unrealistic idea of what parenting is like and also will be hijacked by some so that they can maintain their own happiness at the cost of their children's.

OP posts:
TeasndToast · 20/02/2018 13:26

5 pages in and we’ve had choosing to get pissed as equivalent to giving up in breast feeding along with other judgements on what constitutes a ‘good mother’

Fuck me this is as predictable as it is depressing. And PP is right. The day I see men having a race to the bottom, trampling over each other to see who can be the most miserable, self sacrificing martyr to claim the prize of ‘best father’, I’ll eat my tits.

coffeeforone · 20/02/2018 13:34

We have some close friends who have sacrificed everything for their two young DC, and have the same opinion as the OP.

They openly judge us on our parenting style (i.e. "it's very cruel to put your DS into nursery full time", "you must not go back to work before one year" , "how can you let a one year old sleep in a different room" , "you left him with GP whilst you went to a wedding?! I have NEVER been apart from DC for more than an hour!" ). We recently booked a trip to Centre Parcs and asked if they would like to join us - "No, of course you work full time so you have all this spare cash and we can't afford it as we have other priorities". We don't ever comment on their parenting at all even though they are often very unhappy with their situation, and complain about how exhausted/skint etc they are. I have no problem with their choices, i just wish they would be happier themselves and stop trying to guilt trip those who haven't made the same choices!

user1471506568 · 20/02/2018 13:37

Regarding the reference to fathers, I agree completely. I don't like the emphasis on mum in the phrase but I suppose my issue with it is actually the sentiment itself. So if you were to say 'happy parents, happy baby' I would ultimately have the same problems with it.

On reflection, I think another reason why I have some uneasiness is the fact that it makes assumptions about babies who cannot articulate properly how they feel. If you were to say 'happy parents, happy teenagers', everyone would say that this is ridiculous and what teenagers want to do is often the complete opposite of their parents. The reason we can be so sure of this is that teenagers shout about their wants and needs from the rooftops so we all know to achieve a happy family compromises need to be made. However, as babies have no way to properly express themselves (short of crying) it is easy to kid yourself that the baby is unaffected by your decisions and as long as you're happy and the child isn't being neglected then it's all good.

OP posts:
Strokethefurrywall · 20/02/2018 13:39

Totally agree with CobraKai and TeasndToast

There are some hard of thinking folk on here... These are the type of threads where I genuinely feel mumsnet is a massive hindrance to parents, not a help.

StrawberryMummy90 · 20/02/2018 13:40

The Mum I was thinking of deliberately didn’t breastfeed so that she would be able to go on holiday... I think that’s a bit selfish considering the benefits the baby could have had so she had a week in the sun?!

Massive drip feed there.

Also generally I just think night Wakings and colic etc are definitely a parent’s responsibility! But I didn’t have anyone who would have watched mine as small babies anyway, maybe it’s different if you know you have the option.

If you had the option of someone loving who didn’t mind and knew your baby very well and had a bond with them I highly doubt you would turn the opportunity down because it’s ‘a parents job’. You’re correct I think it is different when you have the option.

I guess I just think, why go away when they’re so little rather than wait?

Wait until when? They’re teens? If I went away when she was 1 no doubt people would be telling me separation anxiety is rife at that age and it was wrong to go then. If I went when she was a toddler people would rush to tell me that her understanding is better and she may feel abandoned. Primary school age and I would be told she would resent me for not taking her and would remember for the rest of her life. Can’t win really!

user1471506568 · 20/02/2018 13:41

coffeeforone I don't understand what opinion you think I share with your friends? I have done some of the same things as you regarding parenting choices and would be happy to join you at centre parcs Smile

OP posts:
BakedBeans47 · 20/02/2018 13:47

I completely agree Teas

I’ve put myself at the bottom of the pile far too many times and all it’s done is impact on my mental health and thereby adversely affect my children and family. I see nothing wrong with mums attaching a degree of priority to themselves in order to help them fulfil their other obligations. Fasten your own life jacket first.

Strokethefurrywall · 20/02/2018 13:49

However, as babies have no way to properly express themselves (short of crying) it is easy to kid yourself that the baby is unaffected by your decisions and as long as you're happy and the child isn't being neglected then it's all good.

Well, yeah - isn't that parenting? Every decision we make as a parent, we do based on anecdotal evidence, advice from others, or from reading a book. We make parenting decisions based on what we know at the time. Why the hell would you judge someone for that? Honestly, I'm genuinely confused that people tie themselves up in knots to make sure that every, single decision is the best one for the child, at the expense of themselves?? That's NOT parenting. That's being a complete martyr.

I've made plenty of decisions based on my own interests. The difference here is whether they're detrimental to my baby's interests. Me going to Miami on a 5 day bachelorette party and leaving him with DH for some great father/son bonding? Not detrimental to him in the slightest but greatly beneficial to me and DH.

A parent choosing to formula feed and not breastfeed. NOT detrimental as formula is an amazing and perfectly wonderful alternative. And that's a fact.
A parent choosing to go away for a weekend and leaving a young baby with a grandparent? Perfectly acceptable.

Our children will ALWAYS be affected by our decisions, that's being a parent Confused

Lovesagin · 20/02/2018 13:50

Still wondering what specific circumstances you are talking about op. These must be some very extreme situations that you think would actually make a baby unhappy.

Obviously if you're talking about a mum being happy by using their baby as nerf gun target practice, or seeing if babies really do bounce, then yes. But im struggling to believe a baby would actually be capable of feeling unhappiness at mum going out with their friends or whatever.

BakedBeans47 · 20/02/2018 13:53

The Mum I was thinking of deliberately didn’t breastfeed so that she would be able to go on holiday..

So?

Hardly the world’s most heinous offence is it? Plus what business is it of yours?

coffeeforone · 20/02/2018 13:54

user1471506568 you said I feel like I have to a certain extent sacrificed a lot of my happiness in order to make what I think is the best decision for my kids. Many of these decisions have come at a huge personal cost to me and I struggle everyday but I honestly do it because I think my choices are best for my kids

This is the opinion my friends have. I think they are very extreme / vocally opinionated in their views (more than OP or others on this thread) and they strongly feel that we should definitely not be doing makes us happy as adults (e.g. working FT/not co-sleeping/allowing babysitters). But at the same time are unhappy themselves.

eeanne · 20/02/2018 13:55

Lovesagin I’m not the OP but speaking for myself, when I hear people say they put their newborn into his own room from birth despite all major health agencies saying it’s safest to room share in the early months.

I know a woman who said she doesn’t room share because her cat sleeps in the bed with her and DH and she didn’t feel comfortable affecting the cat by bringing the baby in.

I’m sure that made her happy to cuddle with her cat but I’m comfortable saying that’s not in her baby’s best interest.

Lovesagin · 20/02/2018 14:02

But was the phrase "happy mum=happy baby" used those times?

"I want to carry on sleeping with my cat, happy mum =happy baby after all"

Op has used "happiness", not "best interests", they are different things. It is in the babies best interest, imo, to sleep in the same room, the baby would not necessarily be unhappy at not sleeping in the same room though.

DioneTheDiabolist · 20/02/2018 14:28

Except not all teenagers shout it from the rooftops, some withdraw, adopt compliance or get involved in risky behaviours because they don't know how to articulate what living with a martyr/selfish parent is doing to them.

user1471506568 · 20/02/2018 14:34

dione of course. Sorry, was generalising a bit Blush

OP posts:
eeanne · 20/02/2018 14:36

But was the phrase "happy mum=happy baby" used those times?

I’ve seen it on MN in response to people wanting their newborn to sleep alone.

ThymeLord · 20/02/2018 14:49

Well said Teas. This was only going to go one very predictable way from the start. If I could find a thread like this, on a forum mainly used by men, i'd join you and eat my own tits.

Lovesagin · 20/02/2018 15:15

Ah so when you said "heard" you meant "read"? Either way, I think the difference is it would be a tiny minority probably none of posters who would say "happy mum, happy baby" in that situation. I've certainly never seen that said, I've seen things like "your choice" and so on. "happy mum happy baby" is an odd phrase to say when it's just a discussion whether to have baby in the room. Why would someone suggest the mum isn't happy? Bizarre, but mn is I guess!

Would still be great to know from op what circumstances they have heard this said, thread may go a whole other way.

By the way op, in terms of personal sacrifice, I actually died during childbirth and in old age have (very likely) double incontinence to look forward to. Beat that :)

CobraKai · 20/02/2018 15:23

I'm with you on this never being an issue for men.

I have however, seen male friends go through complete misery with their equally miserable partners because she thinks that making a decision that would likely improve all their lives is being 'selfish' as she must sacrifice herself on the altar of Motherhood.

TeasndToast · 20/02/2018 15:33

The Mum I was thinking of deliberately didn’t breastfeed so that she would be able to go on holiday

Oh the HORROR.

When she drops the baby with the local nonce so she can score at the local crack den, come back and talk.

corythatwas · 20/02/2018 15:39

The examples that immediately spring to mind are a Mum who left her 4 month old for a week for a hen do (she said she regretted it later)

Can I just enquire here: do you have any examples of dads who have left their 4-month olds for a week, and do you expect them to express their regrets in equal measure?

For the record, I did leave dd at this age to go for a 5 day conference abroad: she didn't really notice because she was at home with her other parent, who was just as confident and just as hands-on as I was. I thought that was a measure of the success of our joint parenting.

TheDailyMailIsADisgustingRag · 20/02/2018 15:42

Indeed @cobra.

It would just be awful if a mother was happy.

As I’ve been saying all the way through this thread, it’s not as if happy mums aren’t the ones making sacrifices for their families. Most mums I know are happy to do so, as it’s what they want to do and what they always envisaged doing when they had children. The idea that you have to be a miserable, po-faced martyr in order to have a happy baby is actually kind of comical. Nothing else will do! Any jolly mums out there definitely aren’t doing it right Grin. Or at least it would be comical if it wasn’t so sad. I’ll say it again; it’s possible to make sacrifices for one’s family while also being happy.

I’ve met some professional martyrs. My granny, for example, is deeply suspicious of joy... Going for a meal out as a treat is not to be enjoyed at any cost, but picked over while declaring loudly that you couldn’t possibly eat ALL THAT FOOD. Then the bill must be tutted at while saying how you can’t believe we’ve paid ALL THAT MONEY for something we could have made at home. It’s exhausting to be around tbh and her daughter, (my amazing, fun mum; who fwiw, managed to sacrifice a lot for us while also not being a miserable bag), found granny’s attitude fucking intolerable.

Tinkerbec · 20/02/2018 15:55

Particularly disturbing are the mothers who want to leave their husband/partner and are encouraged to do so.

There are lots of suggestions that living in any type of accomadation at all and struggling will be such a relief to Mother that the children will follow on to be happy there.
The children will not be happier in reduced/changed circumstances, taken away from their bedrooms and familiar surroundings.
The children will not be happier leaving their Father and pining for him because Mum is discontented with her lot and life is not...

I think your advice is particularly disturbing and quite dangerous.

Agree this is when mumsnet is not supportive at all infact the total opposite.

CobraKai · 20/02/2018 16:56

Tinkerbec - I had the same objection. I've never known a woman split up a family and end up in a reduced lifestyle because she was 'discontented'. It just doesn't happen.

What does happen is women in shitty relationships that make them miserable ignoring that for a long time and then ending things because they think it's better than them suffering.

timeisnotaline · 20/02/2018 17:02

The phrase was really coined to take some of the pressure off mums so I have no issues with it.

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