To not agree with 'happy mum, happy baby'

[user1471506568]

Hard to articulate this without coming across as being intentionally offensive/goady but have been thinking about this issue a lot lately and would love to hear other people's thoughts.

Basically I keep seeing the phrase 'happy mother, happy baby' banded around in debates about loads of topics and it seems to almost be used as a means to justify whatever decision a parent makes as being best for the family. However the big assumption underlying this whole theory is that keeping mum happy is always the most important thing that contributes to a baby's happiness, but this can't always be the case and to what extent does this mantra let plain old selfishness creep in? Scientific research often tells us that some things are more beneficial for our children than other things and as our children are completely dependent and can't decide for themselves, should we not be taking more notice of this research rather than simply doing what suits us as adults best and what makes us happy?

I guess it's on my mind at the moment as I feel like I have to a certain extent sacrificed a lot of my happiness in order to make what I think is the best decision for my kids. Many of these decisions have come at a huge personal cost to me and I struggle everyday but I honestly do it because I think my choices are best for my kids.

So for me actually that phrase irritates me as it implies that it is easy to somehow achieve the dream where everyone in a family is equally happy and a baby or child's needs and wants can be met without anybody else's (usually the mother's) needs and wants being sacrificed. I think that this is damaging and gives parents an unrealistic idea of what parenting is like and also will be hijacked by some so that they can maintain their own happiness at the cost of their children's.

Ive only seen it used in the context of offering support, eg a Mum struggling with bf or worrying about co-sleeping being the only way to get some sleep. I’ve never once seen it used on MN as a way to support a shitty parenting decision and I think it’s a good thing for new parents to remember that even if your life has been turned upside down in those first few weeks, you have to look after yourself as well.

Some of these responses are a bit handwringing to be honest- ok, it might be a bit twee, but if it makes a tired and drained new Mum feel a bit better about having to use formula or letting her baby sleep beside her then who is it hurting?

lovesagain that's what I'm guessing.
How far do you go with this? To what extent are we expected to sacrifice our own wellbeing for our children? For what it's worth I was desperate to BF my second child after it didn't work out with my first.
However post birth I developed an infection in my uterus and constant aura migraines. I was having to take 9 different tablets every day.
Rather than be a martyr I reluctantly chose to put my own health and sanity first and switch to FF as it was one thing that I could do to make life easier at that point.
Have never regretted it.
Be content with the choices you made and don't judge others for theirs.

I’ve only ever seen it when talking about BF/FF and staying at home vs working. Is this what you mean? It’s hard to answer without examples. I’ll never hear the end of how my mum ‘sacrificed’ her career for me, what she gave up to raise me and how grateful I should be. I promised myself I’d never be like that with my children so I can relate to the phrase.

I think its an idiotic phrase generally used by selfish people trying to justify pleasing themselves first

This ^^

Yep. It basically doesn't stand up to scrutiny at all, not least because young children are pretty self-centred and don't consider that they could actually impact their parents happiness that much, plus, when you're a kid, you don't appreciate things like the fact that your constant questioning about nothing important and arguing the toss about every little thing are making your mum secretly want to kill you .

I think that perhaps OP is seeing some women's choices as an easy option when for her they may have been a huge sacrifice. On the face of it FF is the easy option but the mother involved may be devastated at having had to sacrifice the BFing relationship so that her reluctant feeder was properly nourished. You can have SAHM who've sacrificed a glowing career to.raose their children and a WOHM who's really sad that she's had to sacrifice time woth her children in order to put a roof over their heads.
You can't go around saying I did X, Y and Z because I felt I needed to make that sacrifice for the good of my family because it's not that unlikely someone else had to sacrifice the same X, Y and Z for the good of hers.

It’s a bit sad you find playing with your children tedious tbh .

I think most mothers are happy to care for their children, even though they have to make certain sacrifices. I think it’s a bit strange that you think making sacrifices for your children = inevitable unhappiness? Or am i misinterpreting?

So I think YABU.

I have only ever heard it used when a mother is really struggling and is making themselves feel guilty over things that there is another perfectly safe and healthy solution to (such as breastfeeding/formula)

Also as a child who grew up with a mum with mental health problems i would definately say happy mum happy baby/child. When my mum was healthy she was amazing but i also remember my mum crying a lot and 3 year old me trying to comfort her or be extra good so i didnt make things worse. It was very confusing. Unhappy mum makes for a very confused and sad child IME.

I've only seen it used in the context of BFing struggles or sleep problems, when a mum is suffering mental health issues or on her knees with exhaustion, but still feels she has to 'put the baby's needs first'. In those scenarios I do think a happy (or at least well rested/not suffering from PND) mum is best for everyone.

For the record, I agree completely about mothers taking time for self care, not feeling bad for FF etc but I just think the phrase is misleading and unrealistic. It will not always and cannot always be 'happy mother, happy baby' and if your baby's happiness sometimes comes at the cost of some of your own then you are not doing it wrong and that is what parenting is sometimes like. Equally sometimes out of necessity you will have to do things to maintain your own happiness that will not make your baby happiest. That is reality and pretending otherwise does nobody any favours in my view .

Youd class playing with your children a personal sacrifice of happiness? Really?

No one has ever used that phrase as justification for not playing with their kids. I'd bet my left tit on that.

@TheDailyMailIsADisgustingRag you clearly haven’t read ‘Spots day at the farm’ 500 times before 9am then if you don’t find playing tedious sometimes...

you know your child best

That one puts the fear in to me at the doctors. Yes, personally, I know him best but I don't have a degree in medicine. Also, parents often find it difficult to see a gradual decline in their child because they become accustomed to it.

Doctors do know this though because when I was reading up on anaemia in children, they don't tend to ask parents if there has been a change in pallor because they don't tend to see it.

Also, I'm also aware of observation bias, and anxiety and er, blind optimism and all those things make me an unreliable observer of my child so, yeah, how meaningful can 'you know your child best' mantra be?

OP, if giving up certain things actually made you happier, then you are not a negation of the argument, but more like the proof of it. You may like to phrase it as sacrifices made for them, but in a wider perspective they were decisions that worked for all of you.

Ime the phrase you quoted is more often use to stop women from actually damaging their own wellbeing and making themselves genuinely unhappy- partly because, as a pp said, children pick up on that and it is not a good feeling to know you are responsible for your parent's unhappiness.

I'm another who has only heard this phrase wrt the mother's mental health and it is true. A healthy mother is better for baby than an unhealthy one.

I have never heard it to justify drunkeness and selfishness. I think YABU OP.

I find it a bit tedious at times. It's most definitely not a personal sacrifice of my own happiness though

Not heard that, heard happy parents, happy kids though.

I know a couple who use it for constant weekends away, days out and whatever they want, the only couple I know who have not made a single sacrifice for their kids, life is the same as before the kids for them minus a few extra dirty bottles. They dump their kids constantly though...but it makes them happy to constantly be out.....don’t think the kids are happy though being in so many different houses and never home.

What a surprise, it has turned into a "I feel sorry for your children" thread.

I agree with tea. If something you feel you ‘should’ be doing is making your life as a mum miserable then it’s better to stop. Yes, it’s used most often with relation to feeding but also to having a break now and then. Never heard it as an excuse for anything particularly bad.

I can't say i've made any huge sacrifices to my happiness for my children and I feel like my children are happy, healthy and for the most part well behaved and good children. I would only really use that phrase in the context of feeding, and in that context I think its 10000000% true. I don't believe that any mother needs to kill herself in order to breastfeed as I just don't believe its that important.

I've only heard it to support a woman struggling with a decision of some kind.

The only people I know who would say it is selfish are the judgemental types who think they're superior because they e.g extended BF, co-slept for years, didn't want anyone to babysit even for a few hours till over 12 mths, didn't have a night away from the child for years etc etc and think anyone who isn't like them isn't putting the child first.

You see it on here all the time. 'They're so little for such a short time, can you really not go without a night away for a year or two till you stop BF? With my pregnancies and BF I didn't have an alcoholic drink for 5 years, it's really not very long and I felt strongly I wanted to put my children first'

I like to think of it as a reminder that the mother must also think of herself when it's so easy to put the rest of the family first.

Life is what you make of if, and a miserable existence is what you'll get if you look for negative meanings to everything.

Doesn't sound judgemental to me - and OP was clear that finding playing dull sometimes is a minor example to avoid introducing specific controversies, not a significant sacrifice. (Personally, the words "Mummy, we've made up a show!" make me want to stab myself in the eye.)

I think some self-sacrifice is a normal part of parenting, and I have in fact heard the 'happy mummy' line used to justify some pretty shoddy decision making, so I tend to agree. Given how exhausting and difficult looking after small children can be, I think simply acknowledging that, and being transparent about the negative aspects, is a more useful form of reassurance than a trite cliche.

@steeley

I will take your Spot books and raise you umpteen episodes of Paw Patrol when I had a poorly toddler.

Yes, some things are a little repetitive, but not to the point where I consider it a huge personal sacrifice . Nor does it effect my general happiness. So, I’m still very much a “happy mum” who occasionally has to watch that bunch of irritating puppies with super irritating voices.

Has anyone ever said to someone who is bored of reading Spot books; “oh hun, happy mum, happy baby - read him an article from The Times”?

Like what though? What shocking decisions have people heard this phrase used to justify? Ive genuinely heard it only in bf/ff.