To not agree with 'happy mum, happy baby'

[user1471506568]

Hard to articulate this without coming across as being intentionally offensive/goady but have been thinking about this issue a lot lately and would love to hear other people's thoughts.

Basically I keep seeing the phrase 'happy mother, happy baby' banded around in debates about loads of topics and it seems to almost be used as a means to justify whatever decision a parent makes as being best for the family. However the big assumption underlying this whole theory is that keeping mum happy is always the most important thing that contributes to a baby's happiness, but this can't always be the case and to what extent does this mantra let plain old selfishness creep in? Scientific research often tells us that some things are more beneficial for our children than other things and as our children are completely dependent and can't decide for themselves, should we not be taking more notice of this research rather than simply doing what suits us as adults best and what makes us happy?

I guess it's on my mind at the moment as I feel like I have to a certain extent sacrificed a lot of my happiness in order to make what I think is the best decision for my kids. Many of these decisions have come at a huge personal cost to me and I struggle everyday but I honestly do it because I think my choices are best for my kids.

So for me actually that phrase irritates me as it implies that it is easy to somehow achieve the dream where everyone in a family is equally happy and a baby or child's needs and wants can be met without anybody else's (usually the mother's) needs and wants being sacrificed. I think that this is damaging and gives parents an unrealistic idea of what parenting is like and also will be hijacked by some so that they can maintain their own happiness at the cost of their children's.

*shoddy decisions

I love the phrase because it drives home the importance of keeping a firm handle on your own sense of self ! It is all too easy to become a 'slave' to your kids - a parenting approach that is promoted by the media and facilitated by social media and forums like this. In the majority of cases, parents want the best for their kids and often, that will mean prioritising them at the expense of your own immediate needs or wants. However, if you do that ALL the time, you're just making a martyr of yourself and creating entitled, selfish little people.

i kinda thought it meant as oppose to miserable mum...=miserable everything. expect every parent has to juggle their world around for kids.happiness shouldnt be compromised if you can possibly avoid it

I've only heard it to support a woman struggling with a decision of some kind.

The only people I know who would say it is selfish are the judgemental types who think they're superior because they e.g extended BF, co-slept for years, didn't want anyone to babysit even for a few hours till over 12 mths, didn't have a night away from the child for years etc etc and think anyone who isn't like them isn't putting the child first.

This!

I was told this by my counsellor when i sought treatment for PN anxiety as a way to remind me that i'm still important too and that taking a break every now and then and doing something for myself will mean that i'm able to give my DC what he needs to be happy.

I've never used it to justify doing whatever the hell i please to the detriment of my DC though, nor have i experienced anyone else seeming to do this.

But yes OP if you take it too literally then it could be interpreted as do whatever you want and your DC will be happy which is clearly not correct. I guess it did help me but perhaps i had gone too far the way of giving up everything and pushed myself to the brink doing everything for my family and that certainly wasn't healthy for any of us.

This phrase bothers me too. It's too simplistic.

I mostly see it used to shut down discussion about a difficult decision.

Sometimes it's not obvious which is the best option, both have pros and cons, one might be worse in short term but better in long term, how do you weigh up benefits to baby vs harm of mum being more tired/ stressed?

Sometimes I see mums having a dilemma about a tricky decision where there are arguments for both sides, they are discussing what to do and somebody says "happy mum happy baby" and that's the end of discussion!

I think an unhappy mum will mean an unhappy baby, so I do sometimes prioritise my own wellbeing.
However a happy mum doesn't necessarily mean a happy baby.

I have heard it used by mums who are trying to justify their choices and actions (which are likely to less conventional and or be in the best interests of their baby).
Some have left baby with grandparents when only a week old so they could go out with partner and have time to themselves then do this on a regular basis, by mums who go on a holiday without their baby, by fanatic exercisers or mums who go back to work full time very early on and again leave baby with DP, GP’s neighbours, friends or childcare. I think this the type of examples the op maybe referring to.

Teasandtoast I totally agree. A friend of mine left her baby for 4 days (with her parents) and tried to commit suicide because she failed to breast feed (she was a single mum for context) the pressure she was put under nearly killed her.

The grandparents fed formula and baby is fine and Mum slowly recovering from her perceived failure. I think sometimes it’s a good phrase for struggling mums

@Rhubarbginmum do those decisions automatically means being a selfish parent then?

Holy hell!! Are you people for real!!!!! Happy mum means a mum that can get up in the morning, be able to get herself dressed and do all the things that are necessary for her home to run smoothly. Whether it is going to work full time or staying home full time. To do it without losing her shit and be able to model positive behaviours to her children.

It’s not about taking everyday to herself and ignore the family. You could even say a person who did that had some issues and wasn’t “happy”

This thread probably alienates the women struggling with anxiety or depression who for the first time in weeks has given their baby to someone else to watch whilst they went and had a coffee/ shower/ some time for themselves. As she now probably thinks you’re talking about her.

I think that women are so used to being expected to put everybody else first, that the only way to convince some mums it ok to look after their own mental/ physical health is to tell them it will benefit their child.

By contrast, the male equivalent "happy wife, happy life" works on the opposite principle - men are so used to putting their own needs first that the only way to convince some of them to care about their partners wellbeing is to say that they will also benefit from it.

Yes, have seen it a lot on the 'AIBU to leave my 5mo and go on a 2-week no-kids holiday with dh/my friends' type threads.

I think it’s a balance isn’t it?

Generality life works best if that family members ie mum dad kids are generally happy most of the time. This calls for adjustments and small sacrifices from everyone involved not just mum.

Op I think your saying you have made huge sacrifices at great personal cost Is worrying. Do you mean financially? My bil/sil ‘sacrificed’ themselves to send their kids to private school and are very bitter that our 5 comp schooled kids all have or will have degrees while their 2 are unemployed and pretty lazy.

I know adults who constantly guilt trip grown up kids about the sacrifices they had made and it’s s real turn off.

Not saying you are op by the way just a fact I have noticed.

Case in point - the examples provided by Rhubarb !! As a matter of interest, what qualifications do you hold that allow you to conclude that any of these situations should be deemed as 'less than acceptable parenting' examples that require some kind of justification.... unfortunately moral judgement does not equal fact!

OP its concerning that you say: "these decisions have come at a huge personal cost to me and I struggle everyday"

This makes me think "unhappy mum". If you sacrificed less would you be happier and not struggle every day. I dont think you should be living a 'sacrificed' life through your kids

I've only heard it used positively to support women, never in the examples you describe. For example, if a mother wants to go back to work because it would make her happier, but she feels guilt about leaving the child in childcare.

OP I have to agree with you and along with it, 'mum knows best'.

In a lot of instances mum does know best. With a 2 year old who isn't right and the GP keeps fobbing you off, with a 10 year old whose behaviour changes and the teachers keep saying there's nothing wrong, yes, in some instances parents do know their children better and are the best people to advocate for them.

But actually just because you gave birth doesn't mean you suddenly have been endowed with superhuman knowledge whereby you 'know' that only feeding your newborn 4 times a day is right even though they aren't gaining weight... where you 'know' it's not your child's fault that they bully other children at soft play... I am often struck by the incongruity of threads on here where one is vociferously 'mum knows best' and the next is 'that mother is a terrible parent'.

I'd rather say in both cases that it's a simplistic view; nobody is happy all the time, nobody makes the selfless choice all the time, sometimes you've got to compromise and nobody makes the right choice every time.

I've seen it used on here in context to mums ditching the children to go on holiday alone, drinking, being encouraged to go against their partners wishes etc.

I know adults who constantly guilt trip grown up kids about the sacrifices they had made

This ^^ Seen plenty of these too, there was a big one recently where the mum was guilting the daughter after claiming she sacrificed her career for he. However children get no say in the decisions adults make so blaming the child is awful.

Rhubarb

You do understand that some women want to go/have to go back to work after giving birth and that they are making a perfectly valid choice by using child care? May not be your choice but it’s a valid one.

It is also permissible to leave a tiny baby with a trusted sitter for a few hours while you have a meal etc.

To give the other side of the use in relation to bf, there were people when I was struggling with bf dc1 who took it upon themselves to give me 'permission' to stop and trotted this out, helpfully adding that I would be 'passing the stress' to my baby. I hated that, because I didn't want to stop, I wanted to crack it, and we eventually did (NB baby did not suffer at any time, he was topped up with formula and EBM until 4 weeks) and went on to bf him and two further children for years each. I wanted the time, space, encouragement and support we needed to crack it. If I'd given in to the guilt trip about 'stressing' my baby, we would both have missed out on those subsequent years of delightful, convenient feeding and I might well have not bf dc2 or 3 either.

I think sometimes it's unhelpful. I had PND and was put under pressure to stop breastfeeding with that phrase. Actually I think it was really vital to DS and my bond because (due to the PND) I don't know that I'd have interacted with him enough otherwise. While in many ways I would have been happier in the short term (I wanted desperately to escape my baby) - the breastfeeding meant there was a sort of enforced cuddling/ interaction.

JoeyMaynardssolidlump
I quite ageee and also went back to work after having DC but within months of giving birth rather than weeks. I know some women have no choice say if it was their own business or if finances were bad but that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily better for baby unless Mum also had PND or similar.
Yes, it’s ok to occasionally leave your baby or child with a grandparent or good friend whilst you go out for dinner, go to a wedding or whatever. But personally I wouldn’t have done this when my baby was barely a week old like one of DH’s friends did. I/we only ever had 24 hours away from ours when babies or toddlers and that was nice but enough. Personally I wouldn’t dream of taking a long haul holiday without mine or of exercising fanatically for a couple of hours every day especially if I had been at work all day. But if I did I would say I was doing this for me not to benefit my baby.

I've seen it used on here in context to mums ditching the children to go on holiday alone

yellow I recently went away for 6 days and left my 2yo DD and 4 month DD with my parents who they are extremely close with and see all the time. Me and DH never had a honeymoon so this was it. I wanted to go away for a few days longer but DH felt he couldn’t be away from the kids for that long.

Why is that such a bad thing? Why is it considered as ‘ditching?’

No wonder mums are riddled with anxiety and guilt, it’s idiotic comments like yours that make parents feel bad over something that’s absolutely fine to do!

It's too simplistic to be true, but I do believe that parents emotional well-being has an enormous impact on their DCs both as babies and long-term.

I think it's true, personally, though I don't think it should be taken to mean too literally. I take it to mean that the mother shouldn't forget her own needs. We wouldn't neglect our physical health so why should we neglect our mental and emotional health?
I've found that unhappiness can lead to resentment, which can often be buried for a while, only to emerge somewhere down the line and cause bigger problems.