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Original poster

To think the demographics of families using Grammar schools, are the ones that used private schools in the 80s and 90s.

243 replies

mountford100 · 16/02/2018 16:12

I look at my DDs grammar schools and notice many of the parents driving mid range Mercedes and Bmw and Volvo's. Whereas The private school families can be seen to picking up their kids in thier 'Betaganya's and Cayanne's ' (Bentley's and Porsche's).

This is a culture and wealth difference that has developed over the last 30 years or so . I can remember my father having an aforementioned Bmw 7 Series.

This was the 'best car' at my grammar school and was equal to what my friends families with children at private schools had.

It seems today that £60k cars are the norm of grammar schools and £150k cars are normal at private schools.

This i think explains why Private schools have become the domain of the Wealthy. Private schools have removed if not by fees than socially even the offspring of Doctors ,Accountants and other professional people.

30 years ago were able to attend Private schools because their mother took a part time job up to pay the fees.

This is no longer available !

OP posts:
JacquesHammer · 18/02/2018 08:49

Anywhere between £15000 - £35000 of luxuries in fact, per child per year!

I'm sure you appreciate that fees aren't anywhere near that in all schools.

DD is at a private prep and her fees per year are substantially less than your lower figure.

Taffeta · 18/02/2018 08:50

biscuit - not the norm across the country

163 grammar schools out of approx 3,400 total secondary schools

Bluedoglead · 18/02/2018 08:51

Jacques. I’m a single parent on minimum wage. I don’t have even an extra £1000 a year for fees. Paying £10 for rugby travel per year at the grammar gave me The Fear And was a struggle out of that weeks income.

Are you really not able to understand what it is like to be truly shit poor?

BertrandRussell · 18/02/2018 08:51

Alan Bennett again “And to say that nothing is fair is not an answer. Governments, even this one, exist to make the nation's circumstances more fair”

Taffeta · 18/02/2018 08:51

^^ that’s state

unlimiteddilutingjuice · 18/02/2018 08:52

I am a middle earner who pays for my DC to go to private school.

Median income is £23,556. Average private school fees are £13,194.
I'm genuinely interested in how you manage. Do you have a highly paid DH? Or very low housing costs?

JacquesHammer · 18/02/2018 08:55

Jacques. I’m a single parent on minimum wage. I don’t have even an extra £1000 a year for fees. Paying £10 for rugby travel per year at the grammar gave me The Fear And was a struggle out of that weeks income.

Are you really not able to understand what it is like to be truly shit poor?*

You've spectacularly missed the point. I don't argue that we're priviliged to be in this position. I am however making a factual comment on a point up thread.

I'm a single parent. I couldn't afford it.

SlackPanther · 18/02/2018 08:55

Spacecadet: I have bright children getting 9s and A* s in a comp, actually. And the one now on the Oxbridge path was no way near the top Maths achiever in the year.

We don’t have Grammars in our area. There are a few super-selectives which require trains and buses, or a nearby comp that has two ‘super selective ‘ classes. Which provides an interesting Control really, in comparing their results with friends who didn’t get in or got in on distance. Which shows that selection at 10 involved a certain amount of Emperor’s New Clothes.

Bluedoglead · 18/02/2018 08:56

How can you not afford it yet send your DD to a private prep then?

I’m confused.

BertrandRussell · 18/02/2018 08:56

“163 grammar schools out of approx 3,400 total secondary schools”

WiseDad · 18/02/2018 08:57

@indigo. Well described. That's how I see the situation. I went to a Comp for O levels, which ages me!, and grammar for A levels. Grammar was socially very mixed with lorry driver's son leaving to study to be a vet, a mix going to oxbridge but the richer families' offspring failing to do similar.

Ho hum. Different views abound on what's right but competition for good schools is intense. If there were more academic schools then more kids could do well. I remember the toxic intense anti-achievement peer pressure at my Comp school. Something that doesn't exist so much anymore I hope.

JacquesHammer · 18/02/2018 08:57

*How can you not afford it yet send your DD to a private prep then?

I’m confused*

Because her father pays the fees. The fact that he can afford that has no basis on the income I have!

Bluedoglead · 18/02/2018 08:59

Ok jacques. I misunderstood.

I don’t have an ex who will pay for anything for mine so I have to say u think your dd is very lucky to get those sorts of opportunities

spacecadet48 · 18/02/2018 09:02

slackpanther i am in London and our three local.private are highly sought after and alot of the kids who get in are not from the local area and a number are from abroad. They are highly selective and a number of kids who passed grammar didn't even get an interview. I don't know of any of the local state school kids getting in either. We are in a very nice area with great local state primary, however alot of parents get tutors in. Therefore the local privates tend to be for the very bright prep school kids and not usually from state.

madmomma · 18/02/2018 09:03

We won't get really good comprehensives for all until there is respect for teachers' authority in schools. The culture of parents protecting children from discipline is a big part of the decline in school standards. Children can't learn effectively when behaviour is out of control.

BertrandRussell · 18/02/2018 09:05

“Children can't learn effectively when behaviour is out of control“

Evidence that “behaviour is out of control” please?

spacecadet48 · 18/02/2018 09:09

slackpanther I am not here to criticize state schools. Our local secondary gets reasonably good results, has a gifted and talented section with a number of kids going to Oxbridge. I wouldn't suggest comparing the results of a selected school or grammar with a state school!

spacecadet48 · 18/02/2018 09:26

slackpanther I am not here to criticize state schools. Our local secondary gets reasonably good results, has a gifted and talented section with a number of kids going to Oxbridge. I wouldn't suggest comparing the results of a selected school or grammar with a state school!

Dungeondragon15 · 18/02/2018 09:31

163 grammar schools out of approx 3,400 total secondary schools”

164.

It's a very small proportion of schools which always makes me wonder why people get so worked up about grammar schools on MN. Maybe in areas like KENT were the old grammar school/secondary modern system is still in operation it does have an impact but I think that in most areas, the grammar schools take only a small proportion of pupils, not everyone takes the exam, the comprehensives are therefore still comprehensives i.e. not a big deal.

BertrandRussell · 18/02/2018 09:36

“It's a very small proportion of schools which always makes me wonder why people get so worked up about grammar schools on MN“

Because they do affect a lot of children- although I admit a tiny minority. And because a lot of people are very keen on the reintroduction of the selective system in other authorities- it would be a vote winner for a political party that proposed it. And because there is huge nostalgia for something that was always a crap system- you only have to read the “Oh, I wish we lived in a grammar area” posts on here to know that.

Taffeta · 18/02/2018 09:40

Yes, Kent is a large county

It affects every child in Kent - about 15,000 children

Taffeta · 18/02/2018 09:40

That’s about 15,000 each year

SlackPanther · 18/02/2018 09:42

Grammar schools are state schools!
And the top sets of comps are very comparable to Grammar schools. Which is not surprising since the overall stats for Kent show no benefit over non-selective LAs.

As for fairness, it is perfectly possible to recognise unfairness but not ‘bleat’. It is possible to recognise unfairness and as a result refrain from spouting on about people who don’t send their kids to ‘proper’ schools or to do some actual research into other forms of schooling, or not make blatant generalisations etc. It is possible to recognise unfairnesx and roll up your sleeves and get the best for yourself regardless (actually this is the way much of the world lives). It is possible to recognise unfairness and deploy a bit of a context when listening to the views of the privileged who have not appreciated the concept.....

Dungeondragon15 · 18/02/2018 09:44

They also effect some children in a very positive way though. Many children at DDs' schools come from quite socioeconomically deprived areas and they have really benefited from being able to go to a school outside the area. I agree that bringing back the old secondary modern, grammar school system would not be a good thing. However, that isn't the way it works in many areas with grammar schools at the moment. The impression that people have that everyone who goes to them is "hot-housed" with private tutors is incorrect too and when people say this I wonder what their actual experience of grammar schools outside Kent is.

BertrandRussell · 18/02/2018 10:17

“Many children at DDs' schools come from quite socioeconomically deprived areas”

It’s a very, very unusual grammar school, then.