To think the demographics of families using Grammar schools, are the ones that used private schools in the 80s and 90s.

[mountford100]

I look at my DDs grammar schools and notice many of the parents driving mid range Mercedes and Bmw and Volvo's. Whereas The private school families can be seen to picking up their kids in thier 'Betaganya's and Cayanne's ' (Bentley's and Porsche's).

This is a culture and wealth difference that has developed over the last 30 years or so . I can remember my father having an aforementioned Bmw 7 Series.

This was the 'best car' at my grammar school and was equal to what my friends families with children at private schools had.

It seems today that £60k cars are the norm of grammar schools and £150k cars are normal at private schools.

This i think explains why Private schools have become the domain of the Wealthy. Private schools have removed if not by fees than socially even the offspring of Doctors ,Accountants and other professional people.

30 years ago were able to attend Private schools because their mother took a part time job up to pay the fees.

This is no longer available !

Bertrand.

My parents didn't smoke, go out, go on exotic holidays, have cable tv, new phones/computers/clothes/widescreen TVs etc.”

On what planet is that “making sacrifices”?

Only the 'exotic' holidays (which i guess is joking) can be considered to be anything out of the normal today !

Why are you so bothered about people using their acquired agency to benefit their children by giving them academic opportunities .
Whether through grammar schools or private school provision.

Great quote from Alan Bennett.

BertrandRussell nice to see that your patronising condescension extends beyond the Feminist threads

Whilst I also think that private school fees are much higher relatively speaking than in the 80s/90s and that has changed their average demographic, I think you are being a bit extreme. I suspect that at most private schools (at least outside Kensington and the top boarding schools) 150k cars are few and far between. My experience of one decent private London school is that there are a range of cars. Whatever that may tell you.

Utter bolloks whoever stated that children privately educated aren't academically minded. Whilst there are some like that (tends to usually be the nouveaux riche brigades offspring) that certainly isn't true of many of the students. Btw we each drive a golf not everyone gives a shit about wanting approval/envy from other parents by 'blinging' it up. I was brought up to think that is rather vulgar behaviour

With the cost of housing the trend can only continue. We couldn't afford our current house - and we only got it five years ago.

Utter bolloks whoever stated that children privately educated aren't academically minded. Whilst there are some like that (tends to usually be the nouveaux riche brigades offspring)

O.M.G.!!!!!!

My school fees were £3k pa 25 years ago. The fees now are £12k pa.

I’m more qualified than my parents but earn less than they did then.

“Utter bolloks whoever stated that children privately educated aren't academically minded. Whilst there are some like that (tends to usually be the nouveaux riche brigades offspring)”

I am so hoping this is a spoof. For the sake of the private school supporters on here!

@StealthPolarBear and @Taffeta - both excellent points!

We used to live in Buckinghamshire which has a load of grammar schools and loads of the non selectives suffer from only getting the "leftovers", as it were. Fine if your kid happens to pass, but if they either aren't grammar school material or they are but just have an off day on exam day, it's not a great position to be in. And likewise I agree that it's not right that only in some parts of the country do you even have it as an option at all. The ideal, in my view, would be the way things are in counties like Kent and Lincolnshire, where you have a number of grammar schools but also plenty of excellent, well performing non selectives too....

“The ideal, in my view, would be the way things are in counties like Kent and Lincolnshire, where you have a number of grammar schools but also plenty of excellent, well performing non selectives too...

I think you might find many people in Kent don’t agree- don’t know about Lincolnshire. You are also forgetting the social and psychological damage caused by selection at 10. And the fact that wholly selective authorities like Kent do no better than similar authorities that are wholly comprehensive. The solution is good comprehensive schools, not more divisiveness,

I am glad to live in Hampshire where we don't have grammar schools. Kids can still be streamed in the comp and do really well. I have seen stats that show that bright kids do well whichever school they attend, but kids that struggle do much worse where there is a grammar school. I am also not keen on private schools as I think that they engender an elitist mentality (arrogance).

Where I live, the most popular car collecting from after school clubs is the Volvo. I agree that wealthy people do not always drive flash cars, that some people scrimp to send kids to expensive schools. Where I live, very wealthy people (some driving unassuming cars) are sending their kids to the excellent comp - along with all the other parents! Move to Hampshire people!

I’m really glad grammars are not an option we’re we live. Keeps the standards in the comps high. The local six form college topped the oxbridge entrance numbers last year.

I find the 'sacrifice' argument that's always trotted out on these threads absolutely ridiculous. If you can afford to send your children to private schools by cutting out luxuries that is a shed load of luxuries in the first place. Anywhere between £15000 - £35000 of luxuries in fact, per child per year!

@Bertrand When my parent's mortgage was three times the cost of the cost when they bought it after 17 years living there that looked like a sacrifice. When they had to get up in the middle of the night to empty the pots and pans so that they wouldn't overflow and the floors wouldn't rot this looked like a sacrifice. These were the big thing but then there were the small things-not being able to just go buy a coffee because they felt like it. Not being able to have self indulgent habits. Not being able to buy cheap luxuries to make their lives feel less like they did in the USSR. These are things that many, most people allow themselves before even trying to pay for their child's education. My parents put their lives on hold while their friends were spending money on themselves instead of on fulfilling their financial and parental responsibilities. my parents dug themselves into a mountain of debt for no reason other than to give me a good life that looked like a sacrifice. And I saw and do see many other parents doing it. The reason why the British have such poor social mobility is because parents aren't willing to make sacrifices for their children. Then the same entitles twats complain about supposed discrimination against their state school darlings-it's not discrimination, their parents just didn't bother educating them properly.

Outy, places at a private school for my DDs cost more than my entire annual income. What do you suggest I sacrifice?

Outy- you do realize that you are describing the reality of many people’s lives- and they are not living like that so they can send their children to private school? They are living like that because they have no alternative. My ds went to school with children whose parents struggled to scrape together a spare 3 quid for swimming. I have to say, your private education has not served you well if you don’t have empathy for the lives of others.

honey Very few moving into the homes which are £1m+ on the Wirral work for the NHS. Most are self made or in a family run business. Quite a few are top barristers or accounting partners of big4 firms in Liverpool. The NHS management at arrow park are all labour luurvies and mainly live in oxton/noctorum.

People shouldn't underestimate the sacrifice some parents make. I was at a private boarding school where the fees for one girl were fully paid for. It was a struggle for the parents to afford driving the hour to drop her off and pick her up. School uniform was another big issue because the idiot head decided to change uniforms for the second year so everything in the 2nd hand store was all of a sudden not allowed. They made a lot of sacrifices and they pulled her out after a year because it was too much of a struggle for them. I think the new school uniform sent them over the edge. Can't say I blame them.

We don’t have grammar schools in my area. We do have good comps. However, it has to be said the best performing comps are in nice middle class areas where housing is expensive. There is a definite premium on house prices in the catchment areas for the best schools.

Hang on out, state school is not 'proper' education? Certainly is where I am!

The reason why the British have such poor social mobility is because parents aren't willing to make sacrifices for their children. Then the same entitles twats complain about supposed discrimination against their state school darlings-it's not discrimination, their parents just didn't bother educating them properly.

Wow! How horrible and the person above who said that private education was selective apart from the kids from new money. Not the kind of attitudes I want my kids exposed to really.

At the moment I could afford to send my kids private without massive sacrifices but I don’t plan to. What does that make me? Someone who hate my kids and wants them to fail at life?

*disclaimer - we are definitely of the ‘selection by house price’ persuasion I don’t claim to be a paragon of virtue and I would go private if I felt the state didn’t meet their needs.

Our dd is starting at a private London day school in September. Basic fees £18k. We drive a Porsche and a Range Rover. We are however firmly middle class rather than super rich. My DH just happens to be into cars. I on the other hand shop in H&M. It’s all about priorities.

My kids are in a Grammar school. I drive a 15 year old banger and I don’t stick out as odd! Loads of crap cars in the car park!!

" However, it has to be said the best performing comps are in nice middle class areas where housing is expensive."
Well, if you judge schools by results alone that's true. A school with a big proportion of "Nice middle class" children will always get better results than one with a more mixed cohort.