If you don’t see the issue with TW being classed as women please read this.

[bambambini]

Especially if you have daughters who play sports. Do we really want to have “woman” “girl” “female” totally redifined so that sny msle can say they are a woman? If yes- are you really ok with your daughters facing this now and in the future?

amp.theage.com.au/sport/afl/hannah-mouncey-visits-afl-house-after-failing-to-get-information-from-officials-20180202-h0swtp.html?__twitter_impression=true

What social ramifications?

You really have no idea what's going on do you?

So you think that take my away the rights and safety of half the planet is the way forward? By letting anyone become a woman by signing a form is BONKERS.

Yes. I am happy with my future cis daughters living, playing and working alongside trans girls and women.

I have actual daughters and I think you are being very presumptuous about your future offspring. you have no idea whether they will be happy to be called cis or daughters or anything. Have a little respect.

By the time you have whatever offspring you do have, you most likely will not have to worry about them playing competitive sports at all in all-female teams. That will be gone and your future "cises" (I wonder will you make the birth announcement like that "it's a cis-girl!") will not be good enough to make the team. shame for them but at least their mum will be right-on.

october there's a trans woman posting on thid thread. Are you willing to listen to her?Or are you just going to ignore her like all the so called trans allies ignore the amazing trans people who post here?

*this

It would open the channels for people to identify as they wish to without having to jump through a whole series of freaking discouraging hoops to just be able to identify as who they are.

I just genuinely think that there will be so few people trying to misuse this that it's not worth all this anger, which does come across, whatever the intentions, as transphobia. The people mocking the use of "cis", dismissing any trans identifying person as having gender dysphoria - as if anyone who's different must be mentally ill - and the seeming presumption that all trans folk pose a risk if they share a bathroom with us or our kids. It's these things that are making things harder for trans folk. It's the unkindness, the lack of empathy.

This demonstrates exactly the concerns surrounding the issue. Transgender MMA fighter who did not disclose his transition. The consequences of this could have been fatal.

www.lifesitenews.com/news/transgender-female-boxer-gives-female-opponent-concussion-breaks-her-eye-so

@octoberfarm have you read the heart breaking accounts from parents of trans children on here? What about the heartbreaking accounts of the trans posters here? If you haven't then I really recommend you do. Perhaps then you will understand how damaging this whole thing is to struggling trans people.

So how many females have to suffer at the hands of men who identify as women, before we put their feelings before those of men, October? Is there a ratio that you’d be happy with? One pervert, (as opposed to a true transsexual) to one, two, ten females? Does it matter if they’re a full grown woman or should the idea of a self identifying TIM molesting a child, mean that men shouldn’t enter female changing rooms, toilets, shelters? How many women have to be seriously injured or killed by self identifying TIMs on the sports field before men are prevented from joining women’s sports?

Do we wait until there’s a list and if so how many is too many? When I ask these questions, I’m assuming you’re aware for the push to permit self identification as the opposite ‘gender’.

What the article doesn’t mention is that he was a sub par MMA fighter prior to transition. He had no where near the talent to be a champion among other male MMA fighters. He transition and now he is a champion, winning all his fights against women in the first round.

The fact the transition wasn’t disclosed could have proved fatal for the women he fought.

A grave concern if you ask me.

Of course I'd be happy to listen to the trans woman posting on this thread - her opinion is just as valid as mine or anyone else's, and I'd value her input. But I also acknowledge that her opinion won't necessarily represent all trans folk, and I know some that have really struggled with this stuff in the way I've mentioned. Everyone is approaching this with different lenses and experiences, but of course I wouldn't presume to not listen to her feelings.

Re: the social ramifications piece, imagine if you just one day decided to declare to your family that you were now identifying as a man. You don't think there would be any social ramifications from your friends and family? No opinions, judgements, assumptions or prejudices?

Nobody here thinks transwomen are a threat october.

I'll forever mock the term cis october
also hate the term "trans folk"

So in other words you're not going to listen to them because they're not the right kind of trans person.

Same old same old.

MrsMcgarry do you really think it would be ok for the players pictures here to compete together? Can you really not see any possible issues with that? If you don't then you are delusional

So you think we’re wrong for not wanting men to appropriate the sex identity women and at the same time offended because women don’t want to accept the label ‘cis’. I am a WOMAN and I don’t need any other label attached to differentiate me from a trans person.

But October, with self id, all you have to do is sign a form, no dressing up, no hormones, no make up. Just one stroke of a pen and every single glory hunting, not quite good enough male athlete can massively tilt the scales in their favour.

The winning 2000 intellectual impairment basket ball team exploited the fact that there was no testing to confirm mental impairment. They were all able bodied and of normal intelligence. The whole team faked a disability for glory. The Olympic authority recognised that with no tests in place to determine mental impairment, the category was too open to abuse, so it was abandoned for a time. They didn't respond by saying that it is not fair to subject athletes to invasive tests, so everyone could just self declare, because it would end the sport. Just like self id will end women's sport.

I've witnessed a fair few AFL games living in Australia... he should not be allowed in that women's league.

AFL is like a hybrid rugby and American football... he is a full sized man! Wanting to hulk smash women!

I dread what the future could look like... he needs to find another career! This is disgusting!

I was a sprinter up to collegiate level and I doubt I would have ever won a race if I was competing against men! Imagine usain bolt becoming a woman... what woman on the planet would stand a chance?! Anybody who can't see the issues with all of this is an idiot!

@PositivelyPERF, do you have statistics on this? Genuine question. Because I'd be willing to hazard a guess that the numbers of men pretending to be women to assault children and adults (which is completely awful) are massively, hugely overshadowed by the numbers of regular men making no mention of being women, committing these crimes. I understand your lens is different than mine because of what you've been through, but I can't find any actual, genuinely researched, unbiased statistics that support this idea that this is the new way to target half the world's population.

I'd disagree that no-one on this forum thinks transwomen or transgender individuals are a threat, and I never said anything about the transwoman you mentioned not being the "right sort of trans woman". But flipping that around, you're big on her input because it aligns with your ideas, and yet my referring to other trans folk who don't agree means to you that I'm discounting hers. My point was simply that there's a large population of trans people, with lots of differing beliefs, and I'd happily listen to anyone that wanted to give their perspective. But I couldn't take one trans woman's perspective as representative of all trans people's perspectives, because that wouldn't make sense.

Also the AFLW only began in 2017....

what would he have done if there was never a women's league created?

I know... I a subpar male athlete 😐.

Just to slightly derail from the thread
ChickenPaws Tue 13-Feb-18 01:13:38
Bloody hell, that’s an ugly bugger confused

This comment, while I get we have bigger fights to go, surely we should be sorting out this sort of comment as we go

@blackberryfairy You parent your way, and I'll parent mine. My hope is that I'll raise my kids to be kind, non-judgemental. and accepting of differences. I'm not sure there's anything sad about that at all.

Do the people who think mixed sports are the way to go think the All Blacks would be half female? The podium at the Olympics for sprinting would have a woman on it? Boxing rings would be equally matched? Really?

Because we have a running family. And they all ran (not me, I like sitting on my arse) at a national level. But my DH ran faster than his sister, who trained more and took it more seriously. He's several inches taller and much stronger. He also does martial arts. As do I. He would kill me if we fought. And I don't mean that figuratively.

So all that would happen if you mixed sports is that sports would be male. Surely.

By all means train together. But sex segregated for competition.

My hope is that I'll raise my kids to be kind, non-judgemental. and accepting of differences.

Yeah, most of us hope that.

In some ways the desire of women to be seen as kind has been part of the reason we are always put last.