If you don’t see the issue with TW being classed as women please read this.

[bambambini]

Especially if you have daughters who play sports. Do we really want to have “woman” “girl” “female” totally redifined so that sny msle can say they are a woman? If yes- are you really ok with your daughters facing this now and in the future?

amp.theage.com.au/sport/afl/hannah-mouncey-visits-afl-house-after-failing-to-get-information-from-officials-20180202-h0swtp.html?__twitter_impression=true

I had an Ex who was puny. Short & skinny with tiny feet When he went for me, I was totally over powered. I tried fighting back, with all of my might, and it was utterly useless

That was my experience too.

Yes, I also had a violent ex, who was a good four inches smaller than me. He made me wear flats. 🙄 I worked on a building site and lived on a farm, so I was far from delicate, but I never stood a chance against him.

When I was training in fighting and self defense for the Police, I decided to try some tactics out on my (very healthy) 68 year old Dad. I couldn't get him in a "pin down" whatsoever. There is no way I could get cuffs on him. He was extremely fat and unfit. I was at the peek of fitness and 30 years younger. No fucking contest.

I sympathise with Hannah in the OP, she wants to play sport competitively and she's good at it so should be able to play for a team somewhere.

The only solution is to have another category for transaction people (presumably one for transwomen, formerly men, and the other for transmen, formerly women).

Otherwise women's sport will effectively become transwomen sport (ie formerly men) and biological women may as well not bother.

Case in point, a transman would be very unlikely to be good enough (big / strong enough) to competitively play rugby in a man's team. They wouldn't be included in the interests of equality, so it is unfair to displace women's sport in this way.

"I sympathise with Hannah in the OP, she wants to play sport competitively and she's good at it so should be able to play for a team somewhere. "

Hannah was already an international male sportsman (handball). There doesn't appear to be any reason why Hannah can't continue to be an international male handball player.

I can’t sympathise with Hannah. Hannah has no sympathy or concern for women or what their demands will mean foe women (and girls) sports.

One of the many things that puzzles me: if Hannah feels uncomfortable it is so important that we have to change the meaning of words and reorganise sport to accommodate her. If I feel uncomfortable, I am a transphobe.

At over 6 ft and 15 stone I doubt anyone would even dare try to make him feel uncomfortable even in a dress.

He can go to papers and on you tube but not playing women's football makes him.feel uncomfortable?

Yeah right

Then Hannah needs to make a choice - present as a female or compete in sport.

It's putting a person's sense of entitlement ahead of other people's rights and well-being.

Just imagine: I want to have a baby and breastfeed and feel validated as a woman and a mother, but I also want to continue drinking, smoking and going out clubbing. I don't see why anything should change for me, just because I've changed my life drastically and what I do might have some sort of effect on others. The fact that I can and will do all these things proves that I am a real woman and a real mother. Society needs to be reeducated. The baby needs to be reeducated.

Thing is, how does Hannah even present as female? Because they wear a dress? Someone else said “if you saw Hannah walking down the street, you’d think it was a stag do”.

Unfortunately for Hannah, they look the spitting image of Heman.

My DS is 13. He's a fraction shorter than me but has bigger hands and feet. Poor sod is starting to go through puberty, but hasn't had his voice break yet or any facial hair.

I am a moderately fit woman in my 40s. I'm reasonably strong (I used to be an excellent arm wrestler) and a pretty fast sprinter (I raced at a decent level when I was a teenager)

At the moment we are pretty evenly matched, strengthwise. I can't make him do something that he doesn't want to do (like give me the TV remote), and vice versa. But give it six months and he will be stronger than me, at least my height, and he is only going to get bigger and stronger.

Sports are sex segregated for a reason

Was struck by how condescending Hannah’s comments were re women not being into weight training. I can only assume Hannah has not read any fitness articles or blogs, nor set foot in a gym recently, as there are a LOT of women weight training, and it’s not new.

And not only that but Hannah seems to be referring to professional sportswomen, and although I don’t know any professional sportswomen, I would assume weight training would form a significant part of their regime, regardless of their sport.

Hannah is perhaps one of these people who think that women in gyms just use the cross trainer for 45 minutes and then go home.

I am referring to Hannah by Hannah’s name, because I don’t think I like Hannah very much so I can’t use the pronoun that Hannah wants me to use because I feel that Hannah’s behaviour is not courteous towards women, and so I cannot bring myself to extend any courtesy to Hannah.

But I also cannot bring myself to use the pronoun which corresponds to Hannah’s biological sex because I have been conditioned to be nice and not hurt people’s feelings.🙄😬

Someone else said “if you saw Hannah walking down the street, you’d think it was a stag do”.
😆

This really concerns me. For those women and girls who want a fair chance to play sport competitively, if this is allowed it will be a complete travesty.

I made a mistake, Hannah does not and cannot present as a female. Hannah has chosen to present as a woman.

Seems to me like Hannah is presenting as a bit of an entitled arsehole...

I don't really get what you're suggesting we do about it OP? Are you suggesting that a person who looks too masculine to be called a 'woman' shouldn't allow themselves to be called a woman? I think a lot of people who were born biologically/physically female would have to call themselves men in that case. Who are you to judge who is too masculine/feminine regardless of what they were born as?

Why can't people just live and let live?

"I made a mistake, Hannah does not and cannot present as a female. Hannah has chosen to present as a woman."

Again though, the first thing that comes to mind about "present as a woman" is, how does "a woman" present?

If it's all down to long hair, nice dresses, and lipstick, I present daily as two-thirds male.

I'm not disagreeing or arguing with you though, I just don't think we can say how "a woman" presents when there's billions of us and we're all different but no matter how different we are or how any one of us "presents" we're still women and men aren't. I just don't know how best to say it.

"Hannah has chosen to present as how their idea of how a stereotypical woman might present if one existed" maybe?

I sympathise with Hannah in the OP, she wants to play sport competitively and she's good at it so should be able to play for a team somewhere.

HE can play in the men's teams, the ones that HE used to play in.

And not only that but Hannah seems to be referring to professional sportswomen, and although I don’t know any professional sportswomen, I would assume weight training would form a significant part of their regime, regardless of their sport

Yes that’s correct.

I know several professional sports women and they all do weights as part of their strength and conditioning training.

Halie this person doesn't 'look too masculine' to be a woman. This person is too male to be a woman.

Mrs mcgarry must be a bit blinkered if she cant see why sports needs to be split by sex. In general men do have greater strength due to build, muscle mass, lung capacity....maybe darts,snooker wouldnt be an issue. I guess if they do let trans compete wonen can always resort to increasing their testosterone like in the good old days... oh hold on a minute didnt people get banned for that. I really would like someone to come back with some logical reasons as to why there isnt an issue. Men and women do have a different physiology and its not just about the genitals and the uterus!!!

I think sportswomen need to start taking a stand and refuse to compete

Hannah is going to be in for a shock that is even bigger than Hannah is when Hannah realises that lesbians really don't want to date someone who hasn't had gender reassignment surgery and still has a penis. Hannah might find a straight woman to date, but only if that straight woman thinks Hannah is a man. Which is not what Hannah wants. Tricky.