If you don’t see the issue with TW being classed as women please read this.

[bambambini]

Especially if you have daughters who play sports. Do we really want to have “woman” “girl” “female” totally redifined so that sny msle can say they are a woman? If yes- are you really ok with your daughters facing this now and in the future?

amp.theage.com.au/sport/afl/hannah-mouncey-visits-afl-house-after-failing-to-get-information-from-officials-20180202-h0swtp.html?__twitter_impression=true

"If you accept that "women" born men have an advantage IN CERTAIN SPORTS then the only logical way of keeping women safe is to not allow them TO PLAY THOSE CERTAIN SPORTS WITH WOMEN".

There, fixed that for you. This debate is nothing to do with whether trans women should exist, or have equal rights, just whether they should be allowed to play sport with natural born women

Is there any actual reason we can't acknowledge gender AND sex? Clearly some things are segregated because of sex. Toilets, shelters, prisons, sports. Then some things could be gender based. Schools making girls take hockey and home economics while boys take football and similar.

By all means mix up gender based things. But there are good reasons for most of the sex based decisions. Why can't those remain?

I still think the polite, subtle accommodations women and transwomen were making a few years ago worked a hell of a lot better for both.

Yes. I am happy with my future cis daughters living, playing and working alongside trans girls and women.

HATE HATE that word Call yourself what the hell you like but you do NOT get to re-label me.
I'm a woman, not a cis one, so fk off with that s**t.

I wouldn't teach my kids to put their needs before the needs of perfectly nice other people, and so I don't see why I should view my rights as a woman as sacred and untouchable when pitched against rights of a trans woman - I genuinely believe we should have the same rights

Well, what you are teaching them is to put their rights second. Because they will not be the same rights. A vulnerable woman sent to prison, who most likely has been abused by men at some point in her life, will not have any choice as to whether a rapist with male genitalia is housed on her wing. So her rights are definitely subordinate to the rapist's. Equality for me would be to build a new wing to house the trans prisoners. Why do they have to share spaces with vulnerable people?

What would you say if I told you that I identify as black (I am white)? Not just that, but being black is no longer anything to do with skin colour- it's about an internal feeling. If you start talking about things that disproportionately affect black people like stop and search or certain inherited diseases, I will tell you to STFU because you are making me feel less of a black person because I don't have those experiences. I will insist on being part of committees of black organisations. If there is an ethnic minority shortlist, I will insist that I am on it, as well as other white people who feel black. If black people complain and say I have no clue what I am on about because I was born with white privilege and my experiences are different, I will cry and say that is literal violence. I will target a long-standing black activist, saying that s/he is bigoted and will make fun of him/her for not presenting as 'stereotypically black' because my tightly permed hair and dark makeup make me more black than him/her. Eventually I will take that person's job as equalities officer. From that day forward, I will do nothing but promote the interests of other 'trans-blacks' like me, with a perm and fake tan. If any genuine black people complain, I will verbally abuse them.

Would that on any level whatsoever be okay or acceptable? If no, why is it acceptable when it is done to women?

Is there any actual reason we can't acknowledge gender AND sex?

Yes! Everyone knows we can't change sex...the Trans-army know we can't change sex. That's why the whole thing about gender has been pounced upon as a way of changing the concept.

Change the concept from sex to gender and anyone can be their true self that is in their head/that they can use to further their personal aims.

I've been crossing out 'gender' and writing 'sex' on forms for years and years.

It is relevant why they're identifying as trans woman, because if you block out the rights of all trans woman based on the exceedingly few that have bad intentions, that's an entire population you're denying the rights of, who are just regular people like you or I.

WHAT RIGHTS? As men, they have all the rights they need already enshrined in law. Why do they also need rights bestowed on women DUE TO BIOLOGY that they do not have? They can't have babies so don't need maternity leave. They don't have periods so don't need private female spaces with access to tampon machines/disposal units. They already can compete in male sports so they don't need to compete in female sports.

There are not rights that they need that they do not already have as males in society.

That's so sad Puss in Wellies.

I also don’t like cis. I am not cis I am a woman!

There was some talk upthread of not wanting to be reduced to your biology as a woman.

I can understand that but the fact is our biology does have an impact on so much of our lives. There's really no getting away from that.

This photo is Emmeline Pankhurst being arrested. I love it for lots of reasons but I'm sharing it here because it demonstrates very clearly how women are restricted in life and/or oppressed by our biology.

Emmeline was a gutsy, strong, determined woman. And yet a man has come along and scooped her up as if she's a child.

Now obviously we are built slightly differently 100 years on. But not that differently.

Would you think it fair or sensible for a woman of Emmeline's size to play sport against a man the size of the policeman holding her? If not, why not? What about if that was your daughter? Can you really not see that she would physically be at risk?

There's being nice, which is a wonderful thing to be, and there's being a complete doormat and letting everyone walk all over you to your own detriment.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/eight-of-iran-s-women-s-football-team-accused-of-being-men-a6675576.html

And now this would not be an issue.

So the national Women’s team had 8 male bodied athletes on it. So 8 female bodied athletes missed out.

Nope no one would ever do that would they.

I wonder if those pele like October claiming that the difference is unimportant have ever taken part in a contact sport, and sparred or practiced against women, then men.

I’ve posted about this on another thread. The difference is fucking shocking. The biggest most solidly built women on the team, if I shove them, I can feel a little give, im not as strong, but we are matched and i have a chance to push past if I try hard and use good technique. When the scrawny bloke, less than half a head taller then me. Nope. Not a fraction of give.

On a course, We did a fitness test. I was at my fittest i had been for years, was a distance runner. Beaten EASILY by the chap who was a smoker and 10 yrs older than me. (Who’d never so much as run for a bus)

This is just absurd and I really cannot understand how any right-minded person can't see how dangerous and unfair this is to women.

I don't care how men choose to express themselves, they shouldn't be persecuted or mistreated for wanting to express themselves in a stereotypical women's way and give themselves a different name. Society needs to be inclusive of however people want to express their gender. But there is nothing that can make a male female or a female male.

WHAT RIGHTS? As men, they have all the rights they need already enshrined in law. Why do they also need rights bestowed on women DUE TO BIOLOGY that they do not have? They can't have babies so don't need maternity leave. They don't have periods so don't need private female spaces with access to tampon machines/disposal units. They already can compete in male sports so they don't need to compete in female sports.

beautifully put.

I think the rights they refer to are the right to ensure "woman" now means "and any man who wants to think he is a woman - for a moment or for a lifetime"

My daughter has her period and bled through onto our new fabric dining room chairs at dinner tonight. She was very upset (I wasn't -
happened me at the office back in 1989 when I was so busy I just couldn't get to the bathroom) and we were all trying to reassure her and deal with the stain.

She has had an experience no man who identifies as a woman will ever have. But he is as much a woman as she is? bollocks he is.

@bambambini Kirsti looks like he needs to lay off the meth pipe!

Yuck!

Hannah Mouncey granted permission to play in the lower league of women's AFL:

www.foxsports.com.au/afl/hannah-mouncey-granted-permission-by-afl-to-play-in-vflw-for-2018-season/news-story/c2d664424ac1f9b078ed7412d3bc2094?nk=f480254cf4be87cd6f89cef6d3a92989-1518575111

Hannah Mouncey writing in today's Guardian Australia about knee injuries in AFL. Take home message, it's not about collision, it's the fact women need to get stronger. Note also the numerous modded comments on the "we advocate but don't allow free speech" Guardian:

www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/feb/14/spate-of-acl-injuries-no-surprise-given-way-aflw-is-set-up

That Guardian article on ACL injuries in women's Aussie rules football is the perfect example of the incentives given to TIMs who want to transition to become women.

In men's Aussie rules, Hannah Mouncey would have been a nobody but switch into the women's league and build a social media profile around your transition journey and how much you suffer as an oppressed victim of transphobia and - voila! - you're suddenly an expert on female physiology and sports medicine.

It's the real life version of that meme I love over to the left of my post

A sad day for women's sport. If you decide you are no longer a man because you take female hormones and/or have surgery to make you look more like a woman, that doesn't make you a woman. A man cannot become a woman and vice-versa. #biologicalreality.

It's like putting on a costume. It doesn't fundamentally change the person underneath. And you certainly weren't a woman to start off with. Your perfect male body was the evidence that you were not.

This makes me so angry, and it is making me quite hostile to the trans cause. I am sympathetic to the plight of those with genuine gender dysphoria, and was previously happy to play along with the fallacy that 'he' can become 'she', but I am now thinking I will do the bare minimum required by law. I will certainly state openly my belief that transwomen are not, and never will be, women, and even if you are legally a women, with a GRC, biologically you are not, and never will be a woman. It is a legal fiction.

This makes me so angry, and it is making me quite hostile to the trans cause. I am sympathetic to the plight of those with genuine gender dysphoria, and was previously happy to play along with the fallacy that 'he' can become 'she', but I am now thinking I will do the bare minimum required by law. I will certainly state openly my belief that transwomen are not, and never will be, women, and even if you are legally a women, with a GRC, biologically you are not, and never will be a woman. It is a legal fiction.
I totally agree.

Hannah says: Some, like Peter Brukner, have come out this week arguing that cis women are more susceptible to ACL injuries in sport. An important issue that has been overlooked, however, and is not about biology, is the way women have been encouraged to train. They have been steered away from the weights room and instead told to do more cardio – when in fact women stand to benefit more from the preventative benefits of weight training than men. Look at how many women have issues with hyper mobility; while weight training won’t stop someone being hyper mobile, it will certainly help prevent people from potentially getting into dangerous positions as a result.

Strange mix between overlooking/ignoring women's biological differences (he's a woman, don't ya know, and it's fine for him to compete against women) and recognising them.

PussinWellies That's sad, although not as bad as the injuries a person born with a male physique could cause playing contact sport with persons born with a female physique. But the two matters are similar, and your school should stand as a warning.

That bloke, Hannah already broke a women's leg whilst playing on a different women's contact sport team last year. So womanly !

This Hannah already broke a women's leg whilst playing on a different women's contact sport team last year. So womanly !

Yes, the press about Hannah conveniently omits to mention the injuries already caused by letting Hannah play in women's contact sports, just like the a number of press articles about poor trans prisoner Marie Dean trying to get into a women's prison forget to mention that Marie is a prolific sex offender who is a danger to women.