Women working out of the home condem other women

[restofthetimes]

....to caring for their children. For low pay. (Albeit very expensive childcare for the end user? ie a working couple one of whose wages possibly only just covers childcare fees.... leaving them with effectively one income again)

This is the reality. The number of men caring for the children hasn’t gone up as the number of women working out of the home has.

In an ideal world, would there be an equal number of sahds to sahms? Or should we force more men into paid childcare jobs. I don’t know the statistics, but it seems men just don’t want to work in that area. So women bear the brunt again.

It all seems weird .

It is unwaged sahm who do not generate financial activity and rely on other women to doemonstrate employment to their kids
And sahm spend a salary they didn’t earn. Financially inactive,other than spending their dp money that is
Whereas I spend a proportion of my salary on childcare, this create a demand for nursery staff,and that’s economic activity
I use nursery FT have done for all my dc.my fees pay wages,create demand for job
the nursery staff wages are spent in economy in retail,services,food,and accommodation. Generating spending and supporting jobs

Quite so, Quite. And condemnation is very strong word. I couldn’t give two hoots if a woman chooses to be a SAHM, but for them to make out they are on a special child rearing mission is absurd.

It’s quite sad you consider childcare and early years jobs so negatively
How are you going to conscript men into childcare?compulsory male employees
So,sack the existing women to make room for men?employ people who didn’t chose career?

maybe working is as much an act of love as SAHM

Yy for me it is.

I really cant get on with all this "acts of love "bullshit though. Sorry Tiny not having a go at you but it gets on my nerves!
Children need to be cared for and provided for .Full stop .
I didnt work as an act of love but as I was a responsible adult who had responsibility to provide for DC I had brought into the world.
Lets ditch all the padded card crap- tho I do give mine a bollocking as an act of love

Children need caring for, minute to minute, every day if the week. Someone has to do this. Children also cost money and someone has to earn this.

What difference does it really make which parent does what?

My DH's earnings have always been about 20 times mine. The only reason for me to go to work would be if my job was invaluable to my self-esteem, or I found it too intense being with the children all the time. As it is, the job-satisfaction I once had, paled into insignificance after I had DC, so that was that. It would actuslly feel selfish to put my DC in childcare if I didn't need to.

However, If I needed to work, or I discovered I wasn't cut out to do direct parenting 24/7, then I would obviously have returned to work for those reasons and would consider myself no less of a parent for it.

As for role-models, just doing your best is surely good enough for most children? Just turning up to work in a bank or whatever doesn't make you a role model. Being a SAHM doesn't make you a role model either. I'm the same person, regardless of my "role".

I don’t agree. There’s always an undercurrent of guilt when I go out the door before they are out of bed.

When I worked nights/weekends/Xmas -finishing at 8am - there was always the guilt that I wasn’t there for things like Xmas day or weekends.

So I have to tell myself that I am to some extent doing it for them because I love them and want to give them things.

I’m nit being a martyr. It’s just how is was/is.

But I suppose it’s just like me telling myself I’m staying at home and not working because I love my children

Interesting tiny
Ive never felt one iota of guilt and I suspect most men who WOH dont either (Im a woman)
I also did the shifts you describe at times .

Women are conditioned to be responsible for the emotional work within families so I think it is more difficult to rationalise being away from children and from that comes guilt. I think many men still see providing comfort and nurturing as women’s work even if both partners work ft.

Obviously not everyone is going to feel the same way.

As I said upthread tiny DH and I both WOH/WAH and both did take care of DC .
I see this as the most likely CC option in my social circle-few SAHM/ Both FT .
I think the guilt is a contrived ploy to manipulate women into doing all the shitwork while men are heroes if they change a nappy
Oh and I dont do any of DH "stuff" either.
He is responsible for all his family presents/cards/ his appointments etc
Im a terrible wife and mother

Children need caring for, minute to minute, every day if the week. Someone has to do this. Children also cost money and someone has to earn this.

What difference does it really make which parent does what?

Can I ask do you really not getwhy it makes a difference which parent does what?
Let’s see...
Children and the Habituation of gender stereotypes were mum doesn’t work,dad does work
The Reinforcing of patriarchial roles
The notion of women’s work and women’s roles being in domestic domain because it’s is predominantly women who do these roles
An absence of women in well paid roles and certain careers
So much so we need campaigns to get able female schoolchildren to consider STEM careers. It isn’t that these girls don’t get the grades or lack the ability, that simply don’t see it as something women do

So getting back to it
What difference does it really make which parent does what?
It makes a huge difference what parent does what
There’s a plethora of literature and research why it matters

Check out @MyDaughtersArmy’s Tweet: twitter.com/MyDaughtersArmy/status/961153706464038912?ref_src=twcamp%5Eshare%7Ctwsrc%5Eandroid%7Ctwgr%5Edefault%7Ctwcon%5E7090%7Ctwterm%5E0

Totally agree Lipstick
Later in life it becomes even more apparent as women who take time out can find themselves living in poverty in old age.
Im seeing this right now with my colleagues and its frightening .

Love that mrs
Pretty much how I roll

Yep
Pretty much my go to now for bullshit like this thread
😁

So what do you suggest Lipstick? That I should go back to work, just to prove a point - regardless of whether I want to or not? Shall I have someone else here when the DC come in from school, just to be extra PC? When DH needs to go on his next business trip (probably next week) should I say he can't go? What would be the actual point of any of that? We would probably lose income, become more distant, and definitely more stressed.

Both my daughters will do exactly what they want to do in life and if that involves being a SAHM, good for them. There is nothing holding them back and they are extremely fortunate to have the options that are available to them. They know this (I hope). The same with my sons. I have the time to support them all academically and in every way. They have parents who respect each other and work as a team in their interests.

1ndig0,I suggest you read, familiarise self with literature and research about gender inequalities before you ask why does it matter

Both my daughters will do exactly what they want to do in life ..There is nothing holding them back and they are extremely fortunate to have the options that are available to them I suggest you read widely about the institutional
Social and cultural obstacles that will hold your daughters back. Why they won’t have equal opportunities or outcomes to your sons

I’m not going to come round your house,compel you to get a job. I’m asking you to think about the comments you’ve made. Do you really not see the issue?Our choices,our behaviours they have consequences they matter
Think about why there are campaigns to encourage women into STEM careers. Why able female school-pupils need a push to consider these jobs.

I don’t know what extra pc actually means

@1ndig0 no one is suggesting you go back to work if you don’t want to. It’s just grates a bit when the wife of a rich man posts comments about children being raised by institutions, as you did on Friday morning. Unfortunately my DH and I don’t earn multiples of each other and never will do. We have challenging, professional jobs, but we work in industries that don’t pay super high salaries. So we both have to work and put our poor children in one of these terrible institution. Fortunately our children seem to have survived this terrible start in life and by some miracle seem to have a close bond with their parents and are doing well at school.

Working Parents I know were one goes away for work,they use cm and nursery
There is no practical reason you can’t do this,just preference and habit means you don’t want to
Your dh is capable of holding down a job with a working wife. Just he’s never had to

Lipstick - I am 40 years old. I have a post-grad degree, lived in various countries and experienced the world as much as the next woman, including sexism and misogyny, as we all have. Trust me when I say I'm not naive about this.

My eldest daughter is the most academic of all my DC. Her strengths are in maths and science and she's just got a place at the top girls independent school in London. It made sense for me to support DH because, to put it bluntly, the money he makes pays four sets of school fees and gives them the kind of opportunities my income could never have afforded because I didn't happen to work in the financial sector. It was economic sense for our family to work in this way and I'm not going to hold my children back.

Exactly, DH and I both have to travel for work from time to time (me more often than him). We just coordinate with each other and use extra sessions with our childminder or after school club if necessary. It isn’t impossible (and before anyone asks, we don’t have family close by who can help). In real life I have seen a number of men claim not to be able to cover their partner’s work commitments when clearly they could with a bit of flexibility. To be honest, DH sometimes feels awkward about it as in his company it is normal for mothers to request flexibility, but less so for father. I suspect this is common in many companies, but I think we are beginning to see some slow progress.

1ndig0, read about the gender and opportunity gaps that your dd will encounter
How they’ll earn less, encounter sexism and bias (conscious and unconscious)
mc girls will be more cushioned in that you can throw money at schools,buy class advantage and networking
But inspite of all the advantages you can buy your girls will not fare as well as their brothers

Stretch - I apologise for using that description the other day. It was very thoughtless. I meant it more as a societal comment about men not picking up the slack, as a general rule.

Where I come from, daycare for babies didn't really exist so you had to rely on family or hire someone. So it seems a little unusual to me, whereas in countries like Sweden it's the norm. Again, I apologise for any offence.