Women working out of the home condem other women

[restofthetimes]

....to caring for their children. For low pay. (Albeit very expensive childcare for the end user? ie a working couple one of whose wages possibly only just covers childcare fees.... leaving them with effectively one income again)

This is the reality. The number of men caring for the children hasn’t gone up as the number of women working out of the home has.

In an ideal world, would there be an equal number of sahds to sahms? Or should we force more men into paid childcare jobs. I don’t know the statistics, but it seems men just don’t want to work in that area. So women bear the brunt again.

It all seems weird .

I get the whole,keeping your career going thing but working for virtually no pay seems outrageous
Well if women were actually paid the same than men and weren’t stopped from progressing in their career, they would probably bring more money too......

It's the fault of society and the state for designating care as being low value women's work

It's reassuring when an un-sensible OP provokes some sensible replies.

I don't mean condemn as in taking care of children is horrible, I mean condemn other women to low wages, because it is almost always women.

Women aren't forced into childcare roles, they have the opportunity and the right to apply for any job.

I'm not condemning anyone, when I used childcare I used the provider that best suited our needs.

Really sad the amout of people who have multiple kids knowing from the start neither or them are able/want to care for them the majority of the time so they get sent off to a childminder, someone they spend more time with and create more memories with.

Notready I agreee! I still couldn’t bring myself to work for exceptionally low pay rather than just staying home with my children. But I don’t have a career/profession that I trained for and need to keep a hand in.

Again you aren’t taking the problem the right way.
A simple way to solve that is to INCREASE the wage of people looking after children/babies.

And btw, whynis it money women who out people (women) who care for children in that position anyway?
Why aren’t men also code,ending those people to a life of low wages? I’m ean they could stay at home too. They are parents afetr all... Only you expect that only women are responsible for caring for the children. Both at home and outside the home......

I get the whole,keeping your career going thing but working for virtually no pay seems outrageous

I don't get why everyone always presumes that the full cost of childcare always comes out of the woman's wages and the man's wages are spent on the 'important' things like the mortgage and bills. Why is this? Why is the woman working for 'no pay'? Why is it not that childcare costs X and the joint income of the parents is Y?

Personally I think the solution is for businesses to realise that there's nothing wrong for a huge number of jobs, for the roles to be filled part-time. If both parent worked 3 days a week, everyone's got the same opportunities.

But if you increase the wage, the cost goes up. Simple economics.

Trills makes a good point. Am I condemning low paid farm workers who are male (mainly) because I don't grow vegetables or keep animals at home?

Nursery workers are poorly paid but a fully subscribed childminder makes a very comfortable living. My CM is very proud of her role as a childcare professional and continuously looking at ways to further her skills I don’t think she’d too happy at you writing her off as some kind of serf.

I don't mean condemn as in taking care of children is horrible, I mean condemn other women to low wages, because it is almost always women.

If this childcare did not need doing, these women would have other, higher-paid jobs? Why don't they just go do those jobs now then?

Sorry iPad gone weird.....

^whynis it money women who out people (women) who care for children in that position anyway?
Why aren’t men also code,ending those people to a life of low wages? I’m ean they could stay at home too. They are parents afetr all... Only you expect that only women are responsible for caring for the children. Both at home and outside the home......^
Was supposed to be
Why is it only women who put people (women) in that position of only having a low wage anyway?
Why aren’t men also condemning those people to a life of low wages? After all, they coud stay at home too. They are parents after all.... only you expect that only women are responsible to care for children. Both at home and outside the home.....

The issue is more fundamental - culturally even though being a working Mum is more acceptable Women still sort 90% of the childcare matters, men don't get involved. Predominantly women take time for sick kids and holidays, take part time roles to accom children. Until culturally it is more acceptable for Fathers to be equally held responsible for childcare and child issues (how many Mums are fist on the call list at school or even if not get called first by admin staff) we will get no where.

Just wondering why aren't many men doing that?
CMs slightly different to most paid care workers, imo. You need quite a lot of infrastructure to make that work - a lot of space, your own transport, business acumen to get clients etc.
Paid care workers aren't serfs. but they aren't paid a lot.

Susan the cost of childcare comes out of family income, but when figuring out "is it worth someone staying at home?" the calculation has to be worked out as

• two incomes, - childcare vs
• one income, no childcare costs

And so you do the maths on the cost of childcare vs the wage of the lower-paid parent (as that's presumably which one would stay at home)

Well as someone whose relationship is ending, I’m bloody glad that I have kept working. It means that I can afford to house myself and the children, and feed and clothe us. I I hadn’t worked for the past decade, things would be much more difficult.

And I’m pretty sure that the women (yes it is women) who provide my childcare don’t feel that I’ve ‘condemned’ them to anything. Pay for childcare workers is not going to increase unless the state is willing to substantially increase the subsidy for childcare - it’s not about women condemning women; it’s a societal level problem.

Am I missing something. They chose a career, that career offers a service, people us that service, they get to keep their job 🤷‍♀️

I get the whole,keeping your career going thing but working for virtually no pay seems outrageous.

But they're not working for no pay, they are working for a salary! It's just that they've decided that salary/that proportion of the couples income will be spent on childcare for x number of years.

That might seem like I'm just nitpicking but I honestly think it's important how people position this in their minds. Thinking "I'm working for nothing, what's the point" can lead to women feeling resentful and unmotivated in their jobs (and it shows in my experience).

It's playing the long game knowing that after a few years when they don't need full time childcare, that income will be freed up and life will hopefully be more comfortable. At the same time they've kept up with their career and pension, got plenty of relevant, current experience so better placed for promotion opportunities etc.

I’d like to stay at home with LO til she’s about 2. But I’d have to resign my current post. There are absolutely bugger all jobs in my sector where I live so I’d really struggle to find work. So she’s going to nursery. Not ideal but that’s reality.
If government properly funded the free nursery places then nursery staff might get a decent salary.

I'm not saying I have the answers. My hourly wage is £1 per hour less than I had to pay a nanny to have my children over christmas holidays when there were no kids clubs available.

It just seems mad, but I can't understand how to fix it. And I'm blaming men for not taking more responsibility/ childcare jobs/ sahd-ing

Susan I do understand what you’re saying but it doesn’t change the fact that women’s wage= nearly all the cost of childcare so if woman just remains in the home the family would be hardly worse off. As it’s (usually) already the woman whose been on maternity leave it just makes families more likely to quantify what they’ll earn on the premise of woman going back to work.

upsideup please don’t feel sad about my much loved and wanted DD who has been going to her childminder for 7 years. Her CM gives her excellent care and takes on on more trips and fun days out then I could ever afford. She is an extremely happy content child not a poor waif palmed off because we don’t care.

I’m not sure why you are holding responsibility for this solely on women?

Also, it suits my cleaner to do cleaning. I assume that’s why she replied to my job advert. There was no “forcing”. She gets to fit it around her child being in preschool a few days a week.

My daughter’s key worker gets a subsidised place for her own child at the same nursery. she seems to love her job. There a quite a number of male key workers there too, and a male chef and a male caretaker.

Plus my chikdren’s Dad works too. Why are you not holding the responsibility to him for “choosing” to work