'I don't shake women's hands'

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In a work setting today, a client was seen by four colleagues, 2 male, 2 female. The client shook hands with the two male colleagues at the end, and when I held my hand out in expectation, this is what he said. I know many muslims and never ran into this before, though this is his reason. I'm disgusted at such overt sexism dressed up as religion. I can't say that's just his beliefs any more than I can excuse any other overt discriminatory behaviour. How is this regarded as an acceptable way to behave?

Hellywell10 nails this. In other news....

This sort of thing is why I struggle with feminism

Never had this and I have Shaken hands with many Muslims. He sounds ignorant. Ultimately the number one most important thing in any religion is kindness to others, if they reach out to shake your hand don’t refuse. Silly small minded man.

Well, yeah. Of course he’d be fine with it, he agrees with it!

Well I guess that's okay then. Either he shakes everybody's hand or no-ones in a professional capacity.

I think it's rude and unacceptable. If you are in the UK, or similar beliefs country, you know the culture, you just chose to ignore the local customs but only when it suits you. It's wrong.

I have clients like that. They are educated and bright, so they do not shake hands with anyone, so don't cause any offense. They obviously have their own beliefs but it doesn't stop them having manners.

One of the hemotologists on our team refuses to shake hands. With me or DH. She might be Muslim (she wears a hijab) so it may be for religious reasons but I don't know. I didn't ask.

His hand, his rules. Nobody should be expected to touch anyone else or expect anyone else to touch them if they don't want to for whatever reason. I don't like being kissed like some countries do when greeting so I don't do it. I'm surprised people on mn shake hands with anyone, what with all the dirty non hand washers and having to change their own sheets daily in case they contaminated themselves.

I don’t know how I feel about this.

In our culture handshaking with both genders is normal, but in his it presumably isn’t... What if it were a different cultural norm like a kiss on the cheek? What if a woman arrives in a room and kisses female acquaintances on the cheek but only shakes hands with the man because she feels uncomfortable kissing him based on her cultural or religious norm? Should she feel obliged to kiss him anyway? I guess this is different as a kiss isn’t really the norm in a professional context.

But I’m thinking from a bodily autonomy point of view, does the need to treat men and women equally trump his right to bodily autonomy when it comes to physical touch? As long as in other aspects of his conduct he’s not disrespectful toward women?

Hmm, Ireally don’t know - this is just my stream of consciousness on the matter... it’s an interesting conversation which I don’t profess to having a concrete answer to.

You could have said “no problem, right now I’m identifying as a man” and then seen what happened.

However I agree it’s rude. Either shake hands with all, or if you have to exclude some for religious reasons, with none.

Thanks for replies.... I just looked a bit shocked and he left then, so didn't have time to say anything. But yes, this is discrimination dressed up as religion. I'm disgusted by it. Like previous poster said, if you replaced 'women ' with 'black' , 'gay'... it's fairly obvious what this is.

I've had this from a couple of Orthodox Jewish patients/relatives. I do think it's outdated and sexist, but I'm not about to call them on it - their relatives are in ICU, it would be unprofessional and unkind of me to tell them off at such a stressful time.

But he's not refusing to shake your hand because you're a woman, he's refusing to because he's married and its understood as disrespectful to his wife to have physical contact with other women.

So not because you are seen as less than your male colleagues, if that makes sense?

Disgraceful. He should accord male and female the same respect and either shake everyone's hands or no-ones.

BTW, I know many muslim men and ALL have shaken my hand.

I would have concerns about equality and take appropriate action.

Thankyou @susanbunch you explained it better than me.

To be fair it's not just a religion thing though (just easier to hide behind if you do have a faith), I tore a fucking strip off someone this week for talking to a woman like shit. She didn't say anything as was in uniform so meekly following orders, I did, and made it clear to him he wouldn't have dared speak to a male employee in the same way. He just already saw her as 'lesser', and when we have the five most prominent positions in the UK being held by wimmin, that shit needs to stop.

Well I guess that's okay then. hmm Either he shakes everybody's hand or no-ones in a professional capacity.

If that’s what you think, that’s what you think. I was just pointing out that ‘giving him a taste of his own medicine’ probably wouldn’t make him bat an eyelid.

(Shrug)

It's fine, I don't shake hands with immigrants. In a professional capacity I just ignore them and shake the hands of all the proper English people in the room. My internal faith system believes they are unclean and beneath me.

My hands, my rules.

The Muslim men I know who don't shake my hand often touch their hand to their chest/heart as a respectful greeting instead.

I think we should all do this from now on. Hygienic, too.

I don’t think anyone’s suggesting that he should touch women if he is uncomfortable doing that. But in the UK (assuming that’s where this happened) there is the presumption that women and men are equal in the workplace. In most jobs, sex and gender is irrelevant (or at least should be). So there is no excuse for treating men and women differently. And in this case there is a really straightforward solution (i.e. not shaking hands with anyone) that would both treat men and women equally and allow the man in question to comply with his religious beliefs.

I was just going to say Justin Trudeau manages to touch his chest rather than grabbing women, so if he can respect her belief system I'm failing to see why the OP cant accord others the same courtesy

Physical contact? Give over.

Believe in whatever fairy stories you like, but that is zero excuse for treating certain people as being less worthy than others.
Definitely

If his choice was going to discriminate against half of the room he could have chosen the option which discriminated against none (no handshaking at all)
He could have. But it seems he chose to actively make a point of discriminating against women.
That is not an okay thing to do.

Absolutely fine with me. I can’t stand any sort of intolerance towards religious beliefs.

He's a rude prick hiding behind his silly superstitions. It's a way of indicating to everyone else that he considers you dirty and inferior, and makes you look awkward in front of your colleagues, just because you have tits.

If people must practice this sort of idiocy, they need to work on not discriminating against other people in public/professional spaces. 'I don't shake hands for religious reasons' is acceptable; 'I don't shake hands with people my imaginary friend has designated unclean, but I will shake everyone else's hand' is not.