Adult males can now shower with girls at swimming pools

[TheXXFactor]

Swim England has issued new guidance about trans swimmers - link here. Some of it is sensible- I'm sure trans people can feel self-conscious swimming, so trans-only sessions are a good idea (though of course trans people should be able to use the pool at other times too).

What's disturbing though is the section on Environment, which says that trans people should use whichever changing room they prefer. 85% of men who identify as trans have had no surgery, so this means adult men showering & changing with women and girls. How can this be allowed under child safeguarding rules? And what about all the women who will feel unable to swim if they have to change with men - or whose religion does not allow them to do so?

AIBU to think that everyone's needs & comfort should have been considered?

I'm now imagining a future scenario where you or you teenage daughter goes for a bra fitting and it's a man

You'd best avoid M&S Oxford St then...

Mimsy123

How though, do you mean you’d physically remove him?

Tell him to leave, - if he wouldn't, use any force required to make him. I am not a shrinking violet, and there are other like-minded parents at the Club's sessions. I know we could be in court, and personally I would be prepared to take that on, in the most high profile, public way possible. This insanity needs to be challenged.

I would like to see the bloke's defence - "Well your honour, I may be a man, and have all my physical bits, and nobody would challenge me if I went in the Mens, ..... but I really REALLY had to change and get naked with a load of little girls. It is my right as a REAL WOMAN!!!!!! [sob]!!

Bring it on.

SuitedandBooted

Good for you, if you really are prepared to do that, but as somebody has mentioned previously, it would be a hate crime. Seriously, I’m not sure what the end result would be here, but I’m suspecting a prison sentence. Something has gone very, very wrong here.

It's been 100 years since the suffragettes had to fight for our right to vote.

We now have to fight for our right to safe spaces.

I will be joining the poster upthread in writing to every MP. Doing nothing is not an option.

Good for you, if you really are prepared to do that, but as somebody has mentioned previously, it would be a hate crime. Seriously, I’m not sure what the end result would be here, but I’m suspecting a prison sentence.

Perhaps SuitedAndBooted could insist on going to a male prison?

I go to the gym most days. Single sex, secregated but open plan changing. I am often there at off peak times, only women in there. If a person with a penis came in here to change I would feel very vulnerable and, to be frank, scared. I am no shrinking violet but I would not wish to challenge them, a feeling exacerbated by the fact that I'm undressed / half dressed.

Why would that be hard for anyone to understand?

God, more of this shit. I dont think I can take anymore.

I'm actually glad I live the draconian Northern Ireland, this is unlikely to get past the DUP gatekeepers, cant believe I'm thankfully for a load of religious loonies running this part of the country!

I am prepared to do that - others will be too. I have restraint training Hopefully it won't happen. I doubt it would be prison offense, unless we were really rough with the poor snowflake, and being good little women, and not asserting ourselves hasn't been a good approach so far. I imagine the courts would have quite a busy time of it anyway, if all women-only spaces around the UK are suddenly open to any perv that fancies it. I will not have my life restricted, and my feelings and discomfort ignored, just to appease men.

I will be including the link from @NaturalWoman in my 650 emails to MP's next week, and asking for their comments on how they will ensure women and children stay safe if they just wave the GRA changes through. I think responses from the DUP will be interesting...

Going back to my first comment, can I ask again that as many people as possible contact Swim England, and register their concerns.

www.swimming.org/swimengland/swim-england-contacts/

MrWriter I do wonder if this is one of the reasons the Torys have backtracked a bit given they currently rely on the DUP for their mandate.

After the election I couldn't really see any positives of that coalition but this could be a small silver lining.

@SuitedandBooted

I've sent swim England a message outlining my concerns. Thanks for the link.

BitOutOfPractice

"Perhaps SuitedAndBooted could insist on going to a male prison?"

My God, you're right, I'm tough, assertive, good at science and car maintenance - I must be a MAN!!! Why did nobody tell me!!! Never mind my chromosomes, vagina, husband and two kids.

I will have to talk over women and pee standing up now - it is my MALE RIGHT!!

I'm now imagining a future scenario where you or you teenage daughter goes for a bra fitting and it's a man*

You'd best avoid M&S Oxford St then

And Bath....or possibly Bristol. Mn thread on this months ago.

because of the implication that penis is male

LMAO! It's like the worst Monty Python sketch ever written. How did we get here. Why are so many of us so unwilling to stick up for ourselves? I think so much of this is bound up in the low self esteem tween and teen girls have, and the way they are always told to be good helpers, that's where approval lies. They are the perfect targets.

I don't know if people realise but Jeremy Corbyn has come out in favour of agreeing that the penis is now a female organ. He believes that men who identify as women are real women.

So with Labour councils running many of these swimming pools and leisure centres, they are of course going to be prioritising the rights of those with penises wanting access to women's changing rooms.

To anyone outraged by this, PLEASE complete the Scottish Consultation on the Gender Recognition Act. You do NOT have to be Scottish OR live in Scotland to complete it. You have less than a month to complete it.

Details here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3161638-To-call-to-all-You-have-less-than-a-month-Please-act-now-to-protect-womens-rights?messages=100&pg=1#prettyPhoto

I had a quick skim of Swim England's propaganda guidance. It has a section on safety issues. It acknowledges that there will most likely be an increase in "negative incidents" as a result of allowing trans people into the changing room of their choice.

Guess what?

The negative incidents they envisage are all to do with transphobia. Absolutely nothing, no consideration at all, of the protection of women and the safeguarding of children.

Done AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth

Suited and booted, nice one!

I'll have to tell my dh that he should do all the money stuff and diy because ladies don't.

Kubex I think people need more of an understanding of the trans community to take away the fear.

It was following transwomen to get a better understanding, joining one of their closed FB groups that pushed me away from the obedient supportive ally i once was. I was dhocked tbh at whatvi found and for the obvioyscand open hatred many TW and activists/allies have for “uppity women”.

We're not afraid of genuine trans women - we're afraid of the ones that pretend they are trans in order to assault.

I’m not afraid but genuine transwomen still murder, rape, abuse children, bully and hate women etc. Being trans doesn’t meanthey are automatically harmless an act like angels.

bambambini I agree. I spent a year or two in gender research a long time ago and was a member of a few very active TG forums (fora?..) I have zero illusions about a large percentage of the community and their ‘admirers’.

When an unidentified percentage of transgender women are autogynephiles - men with a sexual fetish for being identified as women - then women are totally reasonable to not want them indulging their fetish in our changing rooms and other safe spaces.

FGS!

All I know is I don't want someone with a penis changing near my daughters, me or any females in general.

So that includes your 10 year old Ds or dh?

I wouldn't have wanted my 10 year old brother or my dad changing next to me once I was no longer a small child, no. Who would?!

I'm now imagining a future scenario where you or you teenage daughter goes for a bra fitting and it's a man ( self identified as a woman ) doing the fitting. You wouldn't be able to object as it would be illegal...

What about male medical professionals? I had a smear and it was a male nurse.** Should I have objected?

wouldn't have wanted my 10 year old brother or my dad changing next to me once I was no longer a small child, no. Who would?

That's about personal preference.* Not safety. Imagine you didn't mind changing near your 10 yr old brother or ddad.* would it have posed a safety risk?