AIBU to think this was high-performance performance parenting?

[JustHereForThePooStories]

I was in a cafe earlier. I was at a table, and a woman and her son (he was about 3) sat on stools at a nearby breakfast bar type set-up, but they were facing me. Nobody else sitting nearby.

Little lad smiled at me, I smiled back. All good.

Then the performance parenting started.

At first, it was generic. “How many marshmallows are in your hot chocolate Little Timmy? 1... 2... 3.... 4!!!!! That’s right! Four! Four marshmallows in Little Timmy’s hot chocolate!”

Next was a loud discussion about the colour of the wall, other colours, the “wuh” sounds at the start of “wall”.

Then the topic turned to me.

“Is the lady who smiled at you a nice lady or a bold lady? That’s right! She was a nice lady because she smiled at you because you have such lovely manners!”

I smiled weakly.

“What’s the nice lady doing, Little Timmy? That’s right!! She’s having a drink and reading a magazine. Do you like magazines? You do! We can get you a Peppa magazine later if you eat all of your hummus”

“What colour is the nice lady’s jacket?”
(He said “gween”, it was actually teal. LT isn’t on the express stream into Oxford)

“Do you like the nice lady’s jacket?” (he did, in fairness)

At this stage, I gave her a bit of a side eye.

“What does the nice lady have on her face?”
(Aside- currently sporting a nice little crop of hormonal acne so I visibly rankled here. Thankfully, for his sake, LT played it safe and went with glasses)

By, I was getting very self-conscious so gave a curt “observant, isn’t he?”.

They continued. My handbag was discussed in comparison to his nursery rucksack- both in assumed contents, and colour.

LT asked why I was in the cafe alone, did I not have any friends? Conversation turned to naming LT’s friends, in no particular order.

At this stage, I decided to finish my coffee and just go. As I was walking past their table, the mother asked LT “where is the lady (note absence of “nice”) going?”

Not sure but I think she heard me muttering “to get some bloody peace” as I walked out.

Today I'm going to be mostly 'bold'

God, I hate the term performance parent. It's just another stick to beat let's face it mothers with.

In this case, the Mum's comments on a random stranger are a bit off the wall, but I don't think it merits calling her out on MN.

There's nothing at all wrong with counting out marshmallows, commenting on colours and sounding out words. It helps develop children's skills. Equally engaging with your child in a reasonably loud, clear voice is recommended by SALT for a reason. Perhaps she should have plugged him into youtube and be done with it. Oh wait, society would have judged the fuck out of her for that too.

This sounds cringe, I would feel really uncomfortable in your position, being made the 'subject' like that. It's fine to teach your kids but to be so loud and obnoxious about it, I mean really.

My dd had speach delay I was told to talk to her like this... Constant talking words, explaining etc. Dragging you into it was unnecessary and embarrassing I would have been embarrassed too but essentially she is doing a good thing

@Laurie has hit the nail on the head I think. Mothers can’t do right for doing wrong. I remember the venom on here on threads about children watching videos in public - “it’s a PRIVILEGE to spend time with your children”, “I’d rather listen to a screaming toddler than have them near me, sitting quietly watching videos” ffs.

Sorry for wanting to entertain my child and actually have a conversation with him instead of sticking him in front of the tv again!

(It wasn't me but I do this... perhaps not to the extent of talking about what's inside people's bags but you still didn't have to listen / take part.)

YABU!

For the last time

• It's not about entertaining your child
• It's not about the volume level (well not entirely)

It's about doing things in a way that deliberately pulls another adult's attention away to act as your parenting audience. It's about parenting in a way that is different from the way you'd parent if you were in a room with no-one else watching, for the benefit of an interlocutor who has been suddenly positoned by you as an audience.

I think this is a subtle difference, and we don't have very sophisticated language to describe it in English. But it is, nonetheless, really obvious when someone is casting an eye at you to admire their parenting/child and when they're just absorbed in what they are doing and not even mindful of the fact you are there,.

Jesus people are really missing the point. The woman can talk to the child all she likes. What isn't alright is commenting on another person's appearance, whether she is "nice or bold" it's bloody rude. The woman can talk to and engage her child without involving another person. Or should be able to.

...deliberately pulls another adult's attention away...

Do sod off , whisky, if an adult has a bloody attention span of a demented goldfish, he/she has no place being out in public unsupervised.

For the last time, the way children learn is by adults talking to them.
Audience is not required.

It's about doing things in a way that deliberately pulls another adult's attention away to act as your parenting audience.

You're right that this distinction is subtle. So subtle that may not even exist outside people's heads. When posters try to explain what they mean by the difference, they usually end up focusing on something really vague like 'they were looking around them for attention'. Or perhaps they were just looking around them?!?!?

It's about parenting in a way that is different from the way you'd parent if you were in a room with no-one else watching

You have no way of knowing this as you can't run a similar situation at home in parallel to make direct comparisons. Some people are naturally more dramatic and indeed 'performative' in everything they do than others.

It's impossible to deduce whether they're doing it for your benefit or not. And then there's the perspective of the beholder. Some people are much more prone to thinking that other people's behaviour is 'all about them' than others. Some people are more sensitive to dramatic presentation and loud voices than others.

Which is why I hate Performance Parenting as a term. It's basically a crock of shit.

But this Mum created an audience by using op as a subject and loudly commenting on her appearance (albeit not in a nasty way but that's besides the point). It's difficult to ignore someone commenting on you like that and yes that would make me feel embarrassed and uncomfortable. There's no need.

Look, it definitely DOES exist outside people's heads. Sure there is room for interpretation in many, many cases where performance parenting is alleged. But the most flagrant cases are absolutely unambiguously geared towards an audience.

And yes, it can be subtle, but human contact is subtle. That's why we admire great novelists like Edith Wharton and Henry James who notice tiny nuances of gesture and thought that reveal things about ourselves that we weren't even aware of, or thought were unique. Subtle is not a synonym with imagined, but with nuanced. I think everyone would recognise a comedy sketch that involved a caricature performance parent - the reason we recognise it is because it does actually happen.

I don't care if you have a loud parenting session with your kids in a cafe, but don't fucking drag me into it if I'm clearly unwilling to participate. I don't want to be your audience. I am infertile and can't have kids of my own, and it is actually painful to me to have to be your interlocutor.

(And, to be clear, the poor OP was absolutely being dragged into it against her will - it's not OK to make another person the prop for your child's education by commenting on their dress or appearance in the hope that they will engage with you socially or become your audience).

He’ll be glad when he gets to start school !

Look, it definitely DOES exist outside people's heads.

Because you say so? Hmm.

Sure there is room for interpretation in many, many cases where performance parenting is alleged. But the most flagrant cases are absolutely unambiguously geared towards an audience.

I cannot think of a single objective measure to determine this. Loudness of voice, facial expressions, looking at other people - all of these could be attributed to many different types of presentations and/or intentions rather than simply to engage an audience.

I've already said it's a bit off the wall in this case for the Mum to directly involve the OP. But again, there are so many potential reasons for that; she was desperate for a bit of adult engagement, she was racking her brains for things to talk about, she's sleep deprived and going a bit doolally (another Irish word for you) she's just a bit socially inept.

I don't blame the OP for wanting out of it, I suspect many of us would have made a swift retreat. What I object to is having a go at it on MN under the label of performance parenting.

I would agree that this is socially inept, and definitely very rude. But I wouldn't say she was showing off her parenting skills, she was just wanting to involve another adult in her probably boring life (which life can often be when you have preschoolers at home).

I'm still unconvinced about whether performance parenting exists. I've never been aware of it, I never heard the term until I came onto Mumsnet. Probably that's because I just don't take any notice of what other people do when I'm in a cafe. I just interact with the people I'm there with.

To be blunt, I don’t care if she does want adult conversation, whether she is sleep deprived or whatever, you do comment loudly on the appearance of some poor sod trying to have a coffee in peace!

I agree, it wasn't good behaviour, like I said I wouldn't have appreciated it either. I was just disputing that it was so called performance parenting.

"Please, do talk to your children by all means. BUT THEY’RE NOT DEAF. You really don’t have to involve everyone around you. It really pisses me off."

Actually DS1 is hearing impaired, so did need to hear a clear voice. And I grew up with a hearing impaired DB and DF, so sorry but my voice carries. I try to speak more quietly when out but it still carries.

Discussing other people was definitely rude, OP, but the rest was just a parent engaging with her DC.

i doff my cap to whisky owl for her ability to rope in Edith Wharton and Henry James as supporting evidence !!

I agree with poster upthread who observed that we can see who are the PPs on this thread...

Some people really do have the hide of a rhinoceros and are oblivious to the discomfort/irritation/raised eyebrow of others. How anyone can possibly defend encouraging a child to comment out loud on a stranger's appearance is beyond me.

Do you know what irritates me, what grates so much I'd like to gag the poor accidental 'culprits', what drives me off my bloody rocker and makes me imagine slapping the offenders with wet fish? No, because those poor sods can't do a thing abot it, they go on about their business completely oblivious that just by opening their mouths they make someone within hearing-distance scream inwardly and leave if at all possible...
[Ti's the reason I'll avoid Manchester at all costs]
Everything is subjective and my intense dislike of something doesn't make it wrong. Just something I don't like.
Parents talk to their children about things/people around them to give child a point of 'reference', strange women/men included.
You might not like it but they are not doing it to perform for bloody strangers.

How anyone can possibly defend encouraging a child to comment out loud on a stranger's appearance is beyond me.

I don't think many (if any) posters are defending it. There's a general consensus that the woman in question is a bit socially lacking. It's the PP label that we're objecting too.

I agree with poster upthread who observed that we can see who are the PPs on this thread

And if I'm included in that, I honestly couldn't give a flying fuck. I'm just trying to be the best parent I can be and yes, that involves engaging with my child in public and aiding his development where I can.

If, as I count out the marshmallows in DS's hot chocolate, you deem my voice too loud, my body language too confident or that I'm looking around me too much, then that's your problem not mine.

My daughter has Aspergers, she can become very anxious when in a crowded place or if she feels trapped in anyway. Queueing to pay for something, for example, with people in front and behind her will likely 'set her off' she'll jiggle around, vocal tics will present themselves etc. To focus her I can sometimes point to a price tag and say "this is £1.40, how many would 2 cost?" 3 cost etc. this will give her something to take her mind off the feeling of being trapped. I will be asking her, for her benefit. People around us might hear, what I won't be doing is looking around to see who can hear or try and engage others in admiring her maths skills. Because I can talk to my child without needing - or seeking - anyone else's approval. Maybe next time I'll ask her to add up the shopping of the nice lady in the green teal jacket in front of us

Laurie you should come to the children's section library in my naice city and you will see guaranteed performance parenting . My lovely friend used to do it. I have some cracking examples. Still haven't topped the competitive granny I mentioned upthread and her prompting her granddaughter (aged about 9 entirely NT) to show everyone her MANDARIN skills then getting increasingly irate when the granddaughter tried to sink into her chair...