to think it's time to bin the word feminism

[whatnow123]

Good Morning Britain conducted two seperate polls. One asked the public if they identify as a feminist, 85% said no. The other asked if you believe in gender equality, 85% said yes.

Susanna Reid & Charlotte Hawkins, both feminists, stated they are the same thing. Clearly most people don't agree.

Regardless of the dictionary definition, the word "feminism" appears to be tainted. Does the word now do more harm than good by turning off both women and men from ideals we agree upon?

"The sneering, the name calling, the seeming need to tell women what to do and anti-woman sentiment? I think all these things contribute to feminism being seen as toxic. Along with the peddling of dubious and out and out bullshit statisticss, anti-man sentiment and those who use feminism to be goady fuckers."

Yes, all of that. How does a movement like feminism control those who identify themselves as feminist but behave in ways that damage the movement? How do you stop women who damage feminism having an impact?

I don't think you can control it. But you can call it out when you see it.

I do not associate as a feminist. I associate it with negative connotations. I am an egalitarian, I will fight for equal opportunities for all, to enable all to make their own informed choices.
I perceive feminism as gone too far, anti men and therefore not about equality.
I feel that feminists judge others and make opinionated statements about what women want. They do not speak in my behalf.
So I think the poll sensibly reflects a positive movement in society towards equality without wanting to be negative towards others.

@GoldenBlue, in your movement for equality for all, do you prioritise any one section of society's needs at all, or is that not necessary? Would you think that organisations/movements that target racism or homophobia should also look to address equality generally?

Many women might not identify as feminists but I don't know any woman who doesn't want greater equality or is it parity with men. Or at least believes that women should have the same rights as men.

I have a theory that many women shy away from feminism on account of a perceived cognitive dissonance; we see areas in our own lives where we think we 'fall short' of imagined 'feminist standards', whether it is that we're choosing to put up with poor behaviour from male partners in order to keep the peace, or that we put ourselves through, or even enjoy, elaborate grooming routines, or enjoy feeling validated through flirtation with male colleagues, or secretly yawn when some bod from the Beeb drones on about the gender pay gap, or can't help but to think that our DDs are unbelievably cute in pink frilly dresses; whatever. And because we can see what we believe looks like an ideological mismatch, and perceive feminism to be highly principled, we either judge ourselves as not worthy ('Look at me, I haven't even got enough back bone to stand up to my own boyfriend, I could never call myself a feminist...') or go on the defensive and distance ourselves from the whole movement. Such a pity.
And I do think that some feminist camps have a tendency to get preachy and one-uppy, with talk of 'Well, my feminism centres x, y and z groups...'

"The tone is as important as the message and we are messing up big time. "
Are we?

I agree with you OP. And I don't like the way it's used to slate all men all of the time. And things like #notallmen are ridiculed, but why should they be? Why should all men be tarred with the same brush?

I see the same arguments on here all of the time; 'the majority of violent crimes are committed by men', etc. Well, the vast majority of the Nazi Party was German. Were all Germans Nazis? Of course not. The majority of terrorism attacks are in the name of religious extremism. Are all those of faith terrorists?

I'm actually really really sick of the way men are constantly discriminated against, and women's choices ARE questioned and ridiculed by other women ALL the time.

One poster on here posted on a thread not so long ago about hair removal. The OP wanted to know how to best remove her pubic hair. I commented with 'laser removal' only to find this poster had already replied with 'Just don't.' It then turned into a slating match about how women who shave are a slap in the face to feminism for not exercising their right to be hairy.

God the whole feminism thing just really fucks me off to be honest. I always try to make really good arguments on here that are fair and diplomatic but now I'm just done with it. Feminism as it is now will NEVER be for me. I find the pressure from my peers to be overwhelming, something men have never done in MY experience.

The said, of course I believe in equality. Of course I am grateful for my equal rights, and I wish to exercise them fairly, but not to the detriment of men which would be hypocritical to say the very least. Rant over.

Assassinatedbeauty if an organisation purporting to be anti homophobia that appeared anti heterosexual then I would be unhappy. If an organisation claimed to be anti racist but was negative towards another race I would not be happy. Feminism has gone beyond a fight for equality of opportunity it feels like there is a demand for unfair advantage.

I do not want to get a job because I'm a woman, I want to get it because I'm the best candidate.

What I see from people calling themselves feminists does not represent my ideals.

I want strong fire fighters, able to hook me out of a building. I don't care about their gender, sexuality, race, religion etc. As long as they are strapping and strong. I want my SD to have a fair opportunity to try out for this role and demonstrate that she can do this demanding role. But I don't want a tiny little woman incapable of lifting a grown person in the role through quota and bias.

I really struggle to see how women can talk about the issues that affect women without discussing men in some way. In a way that probably looks at things to do with men in a way that might seem critical or negative.

Is it common to lower standards to allow women to participate in jobs they're not actually able to do otherwise?

Feminism as it is now will NEVER be for me. I find the pressure from my peers to be overwhelming, something men have never done in MY experience

Men have never tried to get you interested in women's rights?

No mary fgs. Pressure in general, not pressure to be a feminist.

Nonsense. Feminism is vital, and just because some people haven't a clue what it really is/have ulterior motives not to have it mentioned or discussed is no reason to listen to that nonsense.

Hollow noooo, reeeaaally?

mary you're trying to use sarcasm on an internet forum where no one can hear your tone. So what exactly are you actually on about

Toconclude do you mean to imply that any woman not a feminist is too dumb to understand what it means? Point made perfectly. Not in my name

Why don't you tell me exactly which bit of my post you are struggling with and I'll try my best to dumb it down for you

I'm not a feminist. I'm an equalitarian or equalist or whatever. Until it comes to blokes wanting to wear skirts and use the women's changing rooms at topshop and try and monopolise women's rights.

Then I guess I'm a raving loony feminist because I would probably commit murder to keep those rights for women and only women.

Why? Because don't be a dick. Fight your own corner and win your own battles = equality.

On a more serious note, linked to the discussion about whether those in the status quo who feel threatened by any group will denigrate said group and try to discredit it, I was reading about how the Black Lives Matter movement has been called terrorists for daring to suggest that the police shooting innocent black kids and getting away with it is not okay. I can't imagine anyone thinks the police should be trigger-happy with white kids to make things equal, but why start accusing a peace movement of terrorism?

And why did so many people take to declaring All Lives Matter? Because they didn't understand what BLM were protesting against, I assume. Does that make the movement stupid or irrelevant? Sadly not, it means some people a) didn't understand, b) didn't google before opening their gobs, and c) are fearful of change.

Hollowtree really?? I can assure you I understand what feminism should mean, and at one time did mean. My point is that is not what it means to me now.

It represents women who enjoy putting other women who don't agree with them down. This topic is a perfect microcosm of society and several of you have represented perfectly the negativity I associate with feminism.

In answer to someone's earlier question about do roles get amended to allow woman less able to achieve them, yes they do. The assessment for police dog handlers is to be made easier as apparently female candidates apparently lack the strength/stamina to complete it successfully. However the nature of the job won't change, they would still need to handler big strong dogs, so will need to be strong. Some females may not be strong enough for this role, but may now be able to pass the assessment requirements.

Maybe they've decided to train the dogs better so the handlers don't need to be able to physically haul them about to restrain them? That would also benefit men who are good with dogs but not as big and strong as the average. Do you know whether the change has led to more dogs savaging people?

I've just found a stat on the guardian reporting that the average ITV viewer is 60, so I'm not sure the survey will have been representative of a wide range of views.

If women are saying they see feminism as extreme, critical of women, negative, anti-feminine, stupid, patronising, snobbish, sneery, demeaning, not good enough, anti-men and preachy, then yes, I think we're totally messing up the tone.

“Some females may not be strong enough for this role, but may now be able to pass the assessment requirements“

Blimey, really? That is completely wrong. Could you link to where it’s happened?

No golfen I wasn't writing that to you! Sorry! I agree with your posts, I was adding a bit to my previous post to mary and xposted with you! Sorry!