to think it's time to bin the word feminism

[whatnow123]

Good Morning Britain conducted two seperate polls. One asked the public if they identify as a feminist, 85% said no. The other asked if you believe in gender equality, 85% said yes.

Susanna Reid & Charlotte Hawkins, both feminists, stated they are the same thing. Clearly most people don't agree.

Regardless of the dictionary definition, the word "feminism" appears to be tainted. Does the word now do more harm than good by turning off both women and men from ideals we agree upon?

Do people think they have to be politically active to 'count'?

Also I used to think this. I would say I was not a feminist, as whilst I did believe in equality, I did not actually really do anything at all about it. So I did not think I was a feminist.

I think that is a very negative view onthelist the old fashioned societal view of what men should do is for many damaging. Suicide is the most common cause of death in men under 40. We have threads on here where men are struggling with being 'the breadwinner'. Gender equality should actually be win-win and many men believe in it I think.

Dworkin wrote a book called Right Wing Women that really helped me understand that women make the best call they think they could under the circumstances and then feel the need to protect that decision.

And doing stuff to achieve it I think is modelling the way that it should be to your own children and other generations. It isn't all about marching with placards.

The only people men kill more than women are men, including themselves. Male violence is the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known. Not, in my opinion, an persuasive argument for women needing to do more to help men.

Agree male violence is a massive issue to both men and women. Not sure what you are talking about re: helping men however. My point is that with greater gender equality it may put men also under less pressure. Perhaps it would even lead to them not having to prove themselves as much via violence.

I agree Shimmer, I can't think what I was reading the other day, perhaps it was an interview with Margaret Atwood: anyway, I remember something like "in order to have women's rights you have to first have human rights". And I thought that was very true.

PS Your bloody username has infected my brain - I ended up singing it to my two year old at bedtime!

Men continue to argue that they have the human right to subjugate women. That is what I am talking about, Shimmer. That and the argument that if women would just be nicer to men and never tell them no they would stop killing us.

Why do men never need a label like Feminist, liberal or otherwise, say Masculinist or liberal Masculinists.

I think the answer is self evident.

With so many self ID and non fully transitioned men just waiting to invade our space, to get the balance back, we should be aware of the consequences. Live and let live is fine, but I think there is a deeper agenda going on with all this trans women stuff. Just thought I'd say that.

As long as man is viewed as the default human all the rest of us will be viewed as 'other'.

And presumably there are plenty of people who are not feminists who have things to say on trans issues -and who might not want to post in feminist boards?

Issue is, any time anyone does post elsewhere about trans issues, they are told to piss off to the feminist boards.

I don't think a seperate trans section is a good idea tbh. Having it in feminism, and AIBU at times..means it reaches a very large audience. People who are sick of the topic may just..not click on the threads. But on near every single thread there seems to be atleast one poster who is new to the issue and has their minds opened by reading on here. So shoving trans stuff off to a hidden little section, would stop this. Most people are unaware that anything is happening, and are certainly unaware that we are supposed to say penises are female sexual organs these days.

The argument about FGM was... interesting. I have never ever seena anyone argue FOR it before. Obviously an adults choice is an adults choice though. But I don't think it should be done on children who have no choice nor can they consent.

The boobs in or out discussion was also interesting. Can't say thats anything I have ever thought of. I have no issue with women being glamour models and such, I just think in an actually equal world, there would be next to no demand for this as women would actually be seen as equals and not some toy for men to look at. No problem with women chosing to do this work, just don't think the work should be available to the extent that it is.

I do not understand how we can discuss male violence without naming men as the problem. Surely everyone knows that not ALL men are violent and rapey?! Jesus christ, if they were no women would even be alive today. I understand the need some feel to shout NAMALT all of the time but honestly, I don't see what it adds to any discussion. I know noone at all who does think all men are like that, or does not know that (rarely) women do it too. But on the whole, it is men. And I don't think it is anti-men to point this out. Nice men don't think its antimen either. They will admit that male violence is an epidemic.

Took fucking ages to get through this thread. But has been a good read.

And doing stuff to achieve it I think is modelling the way that it should be to your own children and other generations. It isn't all about marching with placards.

Yeah I understand that now, and thats why I now know I am a feminist. Still not entirely sure which kind of feminist though as my views seem to cross over a lot depending on the subject. I am a mix between radical and liberal, if thats possible

I am slightly politically active right now and yes its on trans stuff. I do think that the rights of women (or those formerly known as women) should be taken into account in all of this thats going on. But mainly all I do as a feminist is moan on here raise my kids equally, I argue with DH all of the time when he tells me DS cannot wear dresses and such..where DD can put on 'boys' outfits. They are as equal as possible, though at school they still seem to get the 'boys play with this and girls with this' crap. Its so hard to do it equally though as everything is so ingrained. Even little stuff like for example, if DS is climing I tend to leave him to it unless he is in danger. But if DD is climing I instictively tell her to stop incase she gets hurt. That kind of thing. I catch myself before saying it sometimes, but sometimes I don't.

I also pull up friends on sexism fairly often. So does DH, infact he does it more than me I think. He is often the one to start ranting about male violence in this house when a story breaks. So I don't have to go through 'NAMALT' as he understands completely and does bring it up often. So yeah. Bit of a life story there...I seem to have a new habit of making absolutely huge posts that are probably offtopic.

But yeah, I have discovered through MN that I actually am a feminist. I did buy into the 'hairry legged dungaree wearing man hating moaners' I am embarassed to look back on how ignorant I was to be honest.

Voting is the most powerful political act an individual can do. We are all activists.

There is literally noone for me to vote for right now and that scares me a bit. The only party who seem to be against self-ID (the main important ossue for me riht now as I genuinely do think the rights of women are fucked if this happens) are UKIP and I could never vote for them. The Tories are backing off a bit but I am disabled and they have made my life hell so I could not personally vote for them. I do not like Labour under Corbyn and they are being utterly ridiculous at the moment anyway allowng this 'hit list' of 'witches' to target. Lib dems are useless and thats a wasted vote anyway really. So the prospect of voting is not good. have been a lifelong Labour voter too but I simply cannot vote for them in this state.