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Original poster

to think it's time to bin the word feminism

464 replies

whatnow123 · 31/01/2018 15:28

Good Morning Britain conducted two seperate polls. One asked the public if they identify as a feminist, 85% said no. The other asked if you believe in gender equality, 85% said yes.

Susanna Reid & Charlotte Hawkins, both feminists, stated they are the same thing. Clearly most people don't agree.

Regardless of the dictionary definition, the word "feminism" appears to be tainted. Does the word now do more harm than good by turning off both women and men from ideals we agree upon?

OP posts:
AssassinatedBeauty · 31/01/2018 17:13

What does a "non-gendered" movement for women's equality/rights/liberty look like, @araiwa? What would it be called?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 31/01/2018 17:19

I also think we need to ditch the word feminist, but I think we should go back to women's lib, it makes it much clearer what we are fighting for.

And AFAIK feminists recognise that gender is a social construct, and they want more equality between the sexes, not genders.

Angrybird345 · 31/01/2018 17:32

I think it is all getting really stupid and women are going to get a bad name.

BertrandRussell · 31/01/2018 17:35

“I think it is all getting really stupid and women are going to get a bad name”

What do you mean?

birdsdestiny · 31/01/2018 17:40

I hope women do "get a bad name" , it's the only way to get anything done.

20nil · 31/01/2018 17:43

Yep, more bad names needed.

Gatehouse77 · 31/01/2018 17:51

I guess I don't identify as a feminist because I believe in equality of race, gender, age, etc. for opportunity. In that sense, I don't break it down.

Does having different factions for specific groups help or hinder?
If it were one movement would those who shout loudest have their agenda pushed forwards?

AngelsSins · 31/01/2018 17:54

Calling it feminism seems to exclude 50% of the population- the 50% that need to make the necessary changes for equality. It also makes it seem like a fight between the sexes.

Well the same could be said for words like MANkind and MANmade, but women seem to cope so I don't know why it's asking so much for men to cope with this one word. The truth is, any word we used would be discredited by men who would claim it means you hate men and want MORE rights then them. The problem is men have a louder voice than women, so people believe that this is what feminism means. We need more women being ready to stand up and say, yeah I'm a feminist, why wouldn't I be?

Toffeelatteplease · 31/01/2018 17:56

So much feminism seems determined to tell women what they must or must not like it (you can like.... it comes from porn) feels like swaping one set of values that don't really fit for another.

I think equality is difficult too. The woman that have achieved parity of pay and career goals have done so because someone else is taking care of their (even very young) children. I'm not sure it's a better way of doing it.

I think feminism has a difficult time ahead as women have more freedom to define themselves.

BertrandRussell · 31/01/2018 17:56

Gatehouse- how do you know which group to campaign for? Do you expect all the people campaigning for those other groups to put an equal amount of energy into campaigning for women?

AngelsSins · 31/01/2018 17:58

I think it is all getting really stupid and women are going to get a bad name.

Really? Men have started countless wars, murdered on a huge scale, been responsible for the vast majority of violence in the world, held back rights for women the world over....do you worry that gives them a bad name? If not, why? Because feminists haven't done any of those things yet you think they give women a bad name? Just doesn't add up....

Original poster
whatnow123 · 31/01/2018 17:59

Is being a Darts walk on girl, being pro life, a model or be pro porn etc incompatible with being a feminist? The dictionary definition would be no.

However, you hear numerous arguments to the contray. So maybe the issue is certain feminist, redefining feminism based on there own political/social views. If the mases took back the word in its truest form it may detoxify it.

OP posts:
RatRolyPoly · 31/01/2018 18:04

Feminists don't necessarily campaign.

So much feminism seems determined to tell women what they must or must not like

This is definitely something I hear from young women, and I'm quite sure I've seen it on MN; attempts to restrict a woman's choice in the name of feminism. I haven't seen it for a moment in real life though. Not a single woman I know who calls herself a feminist defines herself as such because of the restrictions she seeks to oblige other women to live by.

BertrandRussell · 31/01/2018 18:07

It is possible to be a feminist and make anti feminist choices. It is sometimes unavoidable- but awareness is all.

I don’t think it is possible to be a feminist and also believe in anything that takes away woman’s autonomy-bodily or otherwise.

AssassinatedBeauty · 31/01/2018 18:07

@whatnow123 you're confusing these things in general with the specific choices individual women make in a society that is still sexist.

Of course a woman who is a "walk-on girl" can be a feminist, as can someone who is a model. The individual choices they make in their lives might each be a non-feminist choice, but that's not relevant to whether they are a feminist. No one lives in a perfect feminist world after all. Women need to make choices that work for them, in their circumstances in the world they find themselves in.

I do find it hard to see an argument for being pro-porn or anti-choice on abortion that could be described as feminist. Maybe you could enlighten me?

AngelsSins · 31/01/2018 18:09

RatRolyPoly I agree, I've never seen a feminist tell another woman she can't be a feminist because she doesn't agree with X,Y,Z. I think it's yet again non feminists telling people what feminists believe. It's utter bollocks. All you need to believe to be a feminist, is that women are equal to men and should be treated as such.

Gatehouse77 · 31/01/2018 18:10

Bertrand Russell I don't have the answers.

I was merely pondering that if it's equality of opportunity (which is my understanding of feminism - prepared to be reeducated!) then why the different groups?
Although I appreciate that finding a cohesive group of people to fairly represent the populous would almost impossible. You only have to look at politics/Politics to see that.

RatRolyPoly · 31/01/2018 18:16

I don’t think it is possible to be a feminist and also believe in anything that takes away woman’s autonomy-bodily or otherwise.

I suppose theoretically it is, if that person believes in equal restrictions between the sexes and it is a restriction that would impact both sexes equally.

Toffeelatteplease · 31/01/2018 18:20

So it's a good thing that being a darts girl or a formula 1 girl has gone, but no man is calling for the removal of the Chippendales, naked waiters etc. Because being a Chippendale is not seen as demeaning but the Female equivalent would be.

So much of what I see discussed on the feminism boards is reforces a patriarchy defined women.

BertrandRussell · 31/01/2018 18:20

“I've never seen a feminist tell another woman she can't be a feminist because she doesn't agree with X,Y,Z”

Hmm. I might struggle with calling a forced birther a feminist to be honest.

AssassinatedBeauty · 31/01/2018 18:24

@Toffeelatteplease there were hoards of men complaining about acts like the Chippendales in all the comments in online articles about the Presidents Club event and so on. It seems to happen quite frequently.

Could you explain further what you mean by "a patriarchy defined women"?

AngelsSins · 31/01/2018 18:25

Toffee, surely the equivalent would be women calling for female strippers to be banned, which as far as I can see, theyre not. Men have complained about men being stereotyped as feckless idiots on TV and in ads though, a celvin klien (I think) billboard add was banned some years back because it objectified men (hot guy in his pants), the wounderbra ads that were big at the time though were fine. Men DO complain, and they're taken seriously when they do.

honeylulu · 31/01/2018 18:28

My SIL told me i "wasn't a proper feminist" because I'm married and i like wearing dresses and make up.

I jolly well am!
Some people seem to think feminist must mean anti-feminine.

AngelsSins · 31/01/2018 18:29

BertrandRussel me too to be honest, and I'd argue (if I could be bothered) about that issue, but I wouldn't insist that they couldn't call themselves a feminist. It's not up to any one individual to define a movement that is meant to support half the population. Or at least I don't feel it's my place to!

RatRolyPoly · 31/01/2018 18:30

I don't think a forced birther would call herself a feminist Bertrand