to think it's time to bin the word feminism

[whatnow123]

Good Morning Britain conducted two seperate polls. One asked the public if they identify as a feminist, 85% said no. The other asked if you believe in gender equality, 85% said yes.

Susanna Reid & Charlotte Hawkins, both feminists, stated they are the same thing. Clearly most people don't agree.

Regardless of the dictionary definition, the word "feminism" appears to be tainted. Does the word now do more harm than good by turning off both women and men from ideals we agree upon?

"But Bertrand, no one is forced to be a stay at home mum. No one is forced to have children."

Of course they aren't. Which is one of the drums that feminism has been beating for ages! But we have a societal structure that expects it and depends on it.

"As a pp Said, feminism seems to allow women to have excuses as to why they're not as successful as they'd like to be"

A better word would be "explanation" once you have an explanation you can start doing something about it.

In the school book, the scientist picture is a man. The cleaner is a woman.

A better word would be "explanation" once you have an explanation you can start doing something about it.

Same difference really. So they could do something about their lack of achievements? No one has forced them into the position they're In? There's no sinister forces at work keeping them down?

“There's no sinister forces at work keeping them down?”

Nope. No sinister forces!

Ereshkigal

Thank you for demonstrating my point perfectly 😊 Because feminists decided it was wrong to encourage other women do do this, it was stopped, and you played a lovely little violin for me.

Now, if it had been men dictating that women should 'put their breasts away', you'd have the London Philharmonic out.

Are we still on the tits? The tits were out anyway though weren't they? I missed how the tits were being oppressed.

Will someone explain the tuts thing to me? It's making me feel very old.

There is no patriarchy

So women are just shit?

I think the tits wanted to exercise their right to be got out and photographed and filmed and shared maybe? On social media?

But some feminazis said the tits should be allowed to come our but not be filmed and photographed and shared on social media? Maybe?

And that was wrong.

I think?

I am old too though so I might be wrong.

And the bands weren't allowed to point the tits out to the cameras either. Poor lonely only breasts...

And a long long time before that some people missed school the day 'pick your battles' was taught.

Yes sorry it was me who made a bit of a thing about the tits cos 2 posters mentioned them and I was totes confused about which side of the tits they were on. In or out? Perhaps tomorrow they can be part of the centenary celebrations!

The thread I'd kinda proving my first post on here, which is sad but predictable.

Re the SAHM thing, the feminism bit comes in at the outset in situations where there are 2 people with equal careers. The choice is often (mainly?) not an equal one because most blokes are not prepared to provide the same childcare and home life "services" as women (and women know this) so the options on the table are not the same for each party. Or, if not at the outset, the bloke is unwilling to reciprocate the stepping up on the home life front when they agree it's time for the woman to re-enter the workplace, even though they have had the benefit of being able to forge ahead during prime career years. That's where the feminist bit applies. But also where the MC feminism critiques come in, admittedly.

No I liked the tits too lethal. Tits are great

I've never seen a feminist tell another woman she can't be a feminist because she doesn't agree with X,Y,Z. I think it's yet again non feminists telling people what feminists believe. It's utter bollocks. All you need to believe to be a feminist, is that women are equal to men and should be treated as such.

Well prior to recent name change I was told I couldn't be a feminist because I defined it slightly differently to the agreed definition on MN feminist chat boards. I really considered that up to then I was amongst the most feminist out of anyone I knew.

I think the point is that it isn't a competition and people see things differently. In my head I always have to look at the bigger picture of everything, I can't define things narrowly.

Women need to stand together not against each other whether they define feminist slightly differently or they consider they are equalists or anarchists or whatever. Until that happens we won't break down any social constructs other than at our own individual levels.

It was a comment I made upthread and Ereshkigal keeps bringing it up.

It's very very simple: men tell us what to do = patriarchy.

Women tell us what to do = shut up you stupid fucking woman and do what the feminists are saying.

Google it. Girls used to crowd surf and go on shoulders to get on camera, especially topless, it was part of the gig. But by last year feminists had complained it was advertising women "as pieces of meat" despite it being their choice, and now it is actively discouraged.

Why is it fine for men but topless women is indecent exposure?

Of course, I have made the point that men telling is what to do is wrong but women doing it is fine so I will now be ridiculed and laughed off the thread with sarcastic comments instead of a sensible response to what it yet another well made point. It will also be made absolutely clear that I am very, very stupid and should shut my idiot mouth because my opinions don't matter.

Oh wait... that's what feminism is about. Stopping people from doing that.

This is my new tagline for your bullshit:

Feminism - Don't let men tell you what to do, push you around or make you feel like you don't matter. Women will do it for you instead.

Every term women use to describe standing up for our rights gets demonised:
When I grew up, we were proud to be Women's Libbers

then that became toxic
so we had to rename ourselves as Feminists

MRAs and their handmaidens hate that too
The issue is, whatever we call ourselves

"When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"

Re the SAHM thing, the feminism bit comes in at the outset in situations where there are 2 people with equal careers. The choice is often (mainly?) not an equal one because most blokes are not prepared to provide the same childcare and home life "services" as women (and women know this) so the options on the table are not the same for each party.

Well women do have a choice, they can not procreate with these chauvinist pigs. Not all men are like that. This is one of the issues I have with feminism the need to place women as victims and repressed. I am absolutely neither. Not that there aren't female victims of male abuse of a variety of types. But tbh the worst male chauvinists I know is my mother in law, who like a lot of women justify the way that they wait on men hand and foot with 'well they can't do x, they are hopeless at y'

And some women are repressed I should have made clear.

*There is no patriarchy

So women are just shit?*

Some are yes.

People are responsible for their own life choices. Choose to take a decade out of work to raise kids? If your career stagnates that's on you not "the patriarchy" Choose a soft degree with little career opportunities that's not "the patriarchy" when you're paid less than an engineer. That's your own choice.

I honestly don't understand how feminism frames women as weak individuals fully primed for all of societies influences with little free will of their own and yet at the same time demands more females in positions of power.

One way to weaken any demand for equality is to pick out examples of any sympathiser who ever said / did something stupid or nasty.
Demanding perfection from every feminist - or everyone who claims to be feminist - there are some false flags around, stirring.things.

Women shouldn't police each others bodies and damn few feminists ever would
Most feminists I have ever known, including me, think it outrageous that men have the right to bare their chests in hot weather, or while swimming, when women often don't

Totally different from employers requiring women to wear revealing clothing or uncomfortable shoes or makeup for some jobs

We also find it oppressive that "modesty shorts" are increasingly expected of little girls in the playground

• ffs, I cartwheeled and leap-frogged without criticism even in the 1960s

We are actually losing some rights and freedoms

Concentrate your fire on those actually oppressing women;
don't get diverted because a woman actually said something stupid - men are allowed to be stupid without so much flak.

It is very difficult for individuals to overcome millennia of prejudice and social norms, social conditioning of both men & women

Are people of colour stupid, because we still need help to overcome past & present racism ?

“It's very very simple: men tell us what to do = patriarchy.”

No. That really isn’t what “patriarchy” means.

Feminism doesn't mean equality of the sexes. It means liberation of females from patriarchy.