to think it's time to bin the word feminism

[whatnow123]

Good Morning Britain conducted two seperate polls. One asked the public if they identify as a feminist, 85% said no. The other asked if you believe in gender equality, 85% said yes.

Susanna Reid & Charlotte Hawkins, both feminists, stated they are the same thing. Clearly most people don't agree.

Regardless of the dictionary definition, the word "feminism" appears to be tainted. Does the word now do more harm than good by turning off both women and men from ideals we agree upon?

I think we've covered this. Liberation for women, equal rights etc etc can be campaigned for without attacking men or blaming everything on the patriarchy. The 'men are bastards and women are victims' trope and any woman who dares to disagree or wants to make different choices is a misogynist, too, is totally counter-productive.

Feminism - it is control.

Was the point I was making there.

bertrand I don't know what question thou are referring to and you did respond to any of the points I made in my previous post. This is exhausting now, and I really did put a lot of effort into writing that message for you. It gives you a real insight into who I am so we can better understand each other.

My first comment in the above post was a response to this:

Ereshkigal Also, on the subject of boobs out- at Download festival last year, no bands were allowed to point out women with their tops off for the cameras. The cameras weren't allowed to film them despite women EVERY year trying to get on the Download cams! I've been on them before!

Feminism - it's out of control.

I forgot to add it and my response doesn't make much sense without it!

what question thou are my autocorrect wants to be Shakespeare apparently!?

I think we've covered this. Liberation for women, equal rights etc etc can be campaigned for without attacking men or blaming everything on the patriarchy.
You are advocating for the 10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.
Congratulations, you qualify as a misogynist.

I think we've covered this. Liberation for women, equal rights etc etc can be campaigned for without attacking men or blaming everything on the patriarchy.

I totally agree, let's be misogynists together

If you parrot the backlash against Feminism the Feminists are going to surmise you are a misogynist. Shouldn't come as a surprise to an adult.

I actually thing thyme made a really good point. It doesn't have to be this 'agree or be the enemy' that seems to be going on.

Some people can work towards common goals with different means and a different perspective. It's called life.

Shouldn't come as a surprise to an adult.

Of course you do.
Male violence is the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known, but talking about it is man hating so either talk about something else or shut up. Brilliant.

I've never asked for it not to be discussed, but I don't agree with sweeping generalisations. Not all men can be blamed, the exact point thyme was making.

However, when (in a previous thread) I said I didn't see myself as a feminist because of the way it is represented by many over the top, radical women who are actually quite horrible, I get "so some feminists are horrible to you and now you're not one? Get a grip".

So which one is it please? When it comes to women it's "don't let the actions of the few colour your view of the many". When it's men, the whole lot are a shower of bastards because members of their sex have committed violent crimes.

You want me to answer for what someone else said to you somewhere else? Neither women nor Feminism is the borg or a cult, so we can not answer for one another when we dispute things people say.
Most adults are aware of this.
I have nothing more to say to your bad faith arguments. I do not know if you are a Poe or a troll, nor do I care.

Are you effing kidding me? The political movement for the liberation of women spends too much time and effort on women's issues and not enough on equality for the men?

No I’m not. I don’t think the majority who are for equality would have an issue in there being a focus being on women’s inequality where it exists, as worldwide it’s clear that in general women are being discriminated against, not men.

However, like it or not, the term feminism gives the perception amongst many of more than that, namely a bias towards women that goes beyond obtaining equality for women . Most surveys seem to back this point up again and again, with people saying they’re all for equality, just not feminism. To you feminism and equality may be synonymous, but that’s not the case to many.

Ps love the “equality not justice” image. I agree mere equality isn’t enough.

Well it looks to me like some of us might need a liberal feminist space on mumsnet!

Or perhaps you're an equalis who doesn't think they're a misogynist? You'd be welcome too :)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3158090-New-sub-section-please?watched=1&msgid=75378763#75378763

Have a look and tell me what you think.

We were warned over 100 years ago and yet people never stop banging on about equality.
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." Anatole France.

Wouldn't it be better to have a board for trans issues? There's so much more to feminism-although it's hard to remember that at the moment. And presumably there are plenty of people who are not feminists who have things to say on trans issues -and who might not want to post in feminist boards?

"However, like it or not, the term feminism gives the perception amongst many of more than that, namely a bias towards women that goes beyond obtaining equality for women . Most surveys seem to back this point up again and again"
Do you have a suggestion for another word? And any ideas about how we could stop people transferring their misconceptions onto whatever word we choose? It seems to me very like yet another way of sidelining women's concerns. "Oh, it's the word feminism-it puts people off" "Oh, it's the way women ask for equality-it puts people off. You should be nicer"

Wouldn't it be better to have a board for trans issues?

Let's discuss that on the thread linked, shall we? I'd love to talk it through with you.

Yanbu.
Too many negatives associated with the word feminist.

@Feelitstill if the word is changed to something else, equalism or egalitarianism or whatever, how do you stop the negative associations simply being attached to the new word? Or will this somehow not happen due to the right name being chosen?

“Too many negatives associated with the word feminist.”

It’s not the word- it’s uppity women. And those negatives will remain, whatever the name.

IMO acting like a victim achieves nothing because all you're doing is relinquishing your power to change your situation and say "well I can't, it's the patriarchy". Like the dozens of women moaning on the feminism board that they moved abroad/became SAHMs to benefit their rich husband's career, and now they're stuck and "it's too late to change it now" and blaming "the patriarchy" for why no-one wants to hire them after 10 years out of work, when they entirely chose that life and brought it on themselves! It's not too fucking late, you can always take ownership of your choices and change your life instead of moaning on the internet.

This. A billion times this.

“Like the dozens of women moaning on the feminism board that they moved abroad/became SAHMs to benefit their rich husband's career, and now they're stuck and "it's too late to change it now" and blaming "the patriarchy"
I must have missed this- could you link, please?

thebewilderness 😂😂😂 I don't agree with you so I must be a troll!

Check my posting history. My 'bad faith' arguments are actually very good points well made.

You want me to answer for what someone else said to you somewhere else

Nope. I don't. So why are you making men do the same?

Male violence is the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known

I don't think this is hyperbole. But too, I wonder what our world would look like today if women had not been purposefully stopped from fully contributing. How many talented female scientists were made to scrub the lab floor?