To Not Understand How There Can Be a Men-Only Event

[Nibblertron]

The charity event with captans of industry and celebs etc, with the harrassment allegations.... news.trust.org/item/20180124100129-in2a3/

How can this happen? Imagine if there was a Whites-only event, or an Able-Bodied-only event, there would be outrage.

Why is it OK to have men-only social events?

flowerpot

Maybe it wasnt that then

Yup, privileged, smug bollocks.

Bluelady Cathy Newman, is that you?

@Flowerpot1234 so they deserved it? Or at least consented? And the men are just behaving as anyone would reasonably expect given the instructions given for the waitresses?

@iamyourequal "hysterical", really interest

...interesting choice of word.

AssassinatedBeauty

@Flowerpot1234 so they deserved it?
Eh? Where did I say that?

Or at least consented?
Eh? Where did I say that? I have no idea if any of them consented or not. I haven't written a single word about consent.

And the men are just behaving as anyone would reasonably expect given the instructions given for the waitresses?
Eh? What on earth are you on about? I haven't written anything about the men's behaviour other that it was abominable.

Are you replying to the right poster?

Women don’t go to work to expect to be sexually assaulted, we shouldn’t even have to go thinking it might happen. We could be paid £1000 an hour and still not expect to be harassed and assaulted or abused.

In my younger years I worked in a bar in fetish club and not once, in a highly sexually charged environment was anyone improper towards me or my colleagues... if they can rein it in in that situation, you’d think they could at a bloody dinner and auction.

If that's not what you're saying then what is the point of you going on and on about how you wouldn't have taken this job?

AssassinatedBeauty

If that's not what you're saying then what is the point of you going on and on about how you wouldn't have taken this job?

Because, like I've already said and as I know I stated in the post of mine which was bizarrely deleted, I was addressing the question asked by another poster of "why do we women do this to ourselves".

The difference in values is one reason why. We can't group all women together. We don't all do this. Some do. And I stated it once, I didn't go on and on about it until I had to repeat it in response to posters like you who were questioning me about it.

And I didn't say anything at all like you were inferring, that was a disgraceful jump of logic you did there.

Women don't "do this to ourselves". It's men who do it to us.

On a positive note would a story like this have been the lead on the 10 o'clock news just a few years ago? They have been forced to pack it in after 33 years of getting away with it. I wonder if anyone will try and run this sort of event again? I bet the Charities are going to have to ask a lot more questions now and also the corporate sponsors will not want to be associated with anything like this in the future.

It's really bizarre to suggest that women who took this job have different moral values or ethics. Presumably you think their choice was less moral/ethical than the choice you would have made?

And it's irrelevant why they chose to do the job.

Bluelady and AssassinatedBeauty

Let me ask you both these 2 questions:

1. Why do you think the organisers asked that the hostesses wear a particular colour and type of underwear?

1. If you were applying for this job, why do you think you were being asked to wear a particular colour and type of underwear?

Why? Why is that relevant? What point is there in deciding that women who took this job are basically prostitutes? That they have lesser morals than you?

AssassinatedBeauty

Are you able to answer or not?

squishy answered this one

they ask you to wear black underwear? Well, maybe there's UV lighting, or they've had problems in the past with girls showing up with bright pink bra straps on show... it is a charity event at a respectable, posh hotel

Yes. I'm challenging the relevance of the question! Why does it matter?

(I wouldn't take any job that specified any kind of female-styled uniform because I don't wear dresses, skirts, high heels or make up. This is utterly irrelevant to the issue at hand and also has no bearing on my morals. If for some reason that wasn't the case I'd have assumed so that it didn't show through whatever outfit they were going to provide. I wouldn't have assumed it was because they wanted me to strip and then sexually harass and assault me. As an middle aged woman I'd have told them to stuff it when presented with the actual dress, because I'd be confident to do so. As a 19 year old student I may well have decided to put up with it for the cash. I still wouldn't have expected to be sexually harassed and assaulted!)

I don't mind men only events and women only events.

But this particular event was just a shower of over- privileged dick heads waving their cocks around metaphorically and literally and abusing women. How anyone can say 'but what about women only gym classes etc?' is beyond me.

The more I hear about powerful males (Harvey Weinstein et al.) doing things like this to females I despair inside. I'm raising sons and would be mortified if they behaved like this. I don't know what the solution is.

Is it just tradition as this is 'the way it's always been?' With these elite men or what?? We have so much education out there, not to mention sexual harassment laws and yet....????

And because these people are in positions of power their heads won't even roll for it. I give up!

Flowerpot please reveal your age... It might help me understand your warped take on reality...

There are loads of women only charity events. This was a charity event. The issue is how the women working at this event were abused and degraded.

There is a separate issue about whether men only events like this are appropriate given that they are sponsored by businesses and are about networking and making connections. Why must women be excluded from that?

But definitely the most pressing issue is the appalling way the women working at this event were treated.

I haven't any objection to men only events. But not with scantily clad hostesses. No scantily clad body builders usually serving drinks at women only events AFAIK.

siarti no I wouldn't support a women's only club for which the only reason it was single gender was that the women didn't want men there. That would be sexism.

Having a women only book event, because society is inherently misogynistic and so female authors never get a fair crack...this is fine with me.

Having a women only gym because women face more challenges around body image and everyday sexual harassment...this is fine with me.

Having a women only coffee morning because you all dislike men...this is not fine with me.

The disingenuous and hard-of-thinking are out in force on this thread.

20 years ago, when I first arrived in London, I got a job in chain of City wine bars. My working holiday visa put restrictions on the type of work I could get - it had to be causal and non-career furthering.

I figured a bar job would be a good option, and a great way to meet people, as I knew no-one.

I was right, but little did I realise that it came with a relentless side order of low level sexual harassment - gropings, innuendo, touching and being hit on. It was the 90s, I was young, and to paraphrase, while it was wholly unexpected, it didn't occur to me to mind.

I look back on it now - running the gauntlet of drunk, entitled men day-in-night-out, and am not in the least bit surprised to learn that nothing has changed. Not in the slightest. Not all men are like this, but a hefty proportion are. The world is coming to realise what women have known since puberty.

I didn't have questionable morals or values to take that job. I was simply naïve enough to genuinely think I was there to serve drinks.