Page 6 | To Not Understand How There Can Be a Men-Only Event

Nibblertron · 2018-01-24T10:14:06+00:00

The charity event with captans of industry and celebs etc, with the harrassment allegations.... [[http://news.trust.org/item/20180124100129-in2a3/]] How can this happen? Imagine if there was a Whites-only event, or an Able-Bodied-only event, there would be outrage. Why is it OK to have men-only social events?

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 24/01/2018 21:46

But there's always someone to pop up and say they enjoy being leched at/escort work/sex work. That doesn't make this institutionalised harassment and assault ok.

And usually when you hear women who have left sex work reflect they say 'I said I enjoyed it at the time but I didn't really. I just didn't want to see myself as a victim'

So it's great that R4 dredged up someone to stick up for the event really . Did John Humphries interview her?

CommonGrounds · 24/01/2018 21:50

Sarah Cox a few weeks ago covering for Chris Evans made comments about how desirable a young man was-commenting on his physical appearance. If she was a man there would have been allegations of sexual impropriety.

Women cant have it both ways

QuentinSummers · 24/01/2018 21:52

Women cant have it both ways

What does this even mean?
Women can't expect men not to grope and sexually harass them while they are working because other women comment on men's appearance on the radio? That makes no sense....

Ethylred · 24/01/2018 21:53

They only paid these women £175 each for 6 hours work.
And they've raised £20M over 33 years, with 360 men attending.
That's less than £1700 per head.
Presidents my arse, they're a bunch of cheapskates.

AssassinatedBeauty · 24/01/2018 21:53

What a meaningless post, @CommonGrounds. It's like a dog-whistle reaction using some anti-women buzzwords. Totally pointless.

saladdays66 · 24/01/2018 21:54

Men-only events are ok. Women-only events are ok.

But people being assaulted is not ok.

And I would hope women would not behave like some of those men did...

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 24/01/2018 21:59

Sarah Cox a few weeks ago covering for Chris Evans made comments about how desirable a young man was-commenting on his physical appearance. If she was a man there would have been allegations of sexual impropriety.

What a load of bollocks

Bluelady · 24/01/2018 22:00

Sara Cox commenting on a guy's appearance and men telling women to rake their knickers off and sticking their hands up theirs skirts aren't even remotely comparable.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 24/01/2018 22:02

Sarah Cox a few weeks ago covering for Chris Evans made comments about how desirable a young man was-commenting on his physical appearance. If she was a man there would have been allegations of sexual impropriety.

Women cant have it both ways

FIL? Is that you? You know we told you not to go on the interweb again.

Flowerpot1234 · 24/01/2018 22:20

I've just seen my post was deleted which said I didn't think these women were hostesses at this gig for money and were desperately broke. I genuinely can't remember if I said anything remotely dodgy that would have deserved being deleted. Does anyone know what was offensive in my post? I'm really confused.

littlebillie · 24/01/2018 22:24

I went to a ladies lunch where all the young male waiters just wore a short apron it was a charity event

Flowerpot1234 · 24/01/2018 22:25

squishysquirmy
If I was 19, looking for extra money waitressing etc, there is NO WAY I would assume that serving drinks at a charity event at a prestigious, respectable hotel for £15 an hour would involve "extras".

If I was 19 and it was stipulated that I had to wear a very short tight dress at a men-only event, and they even stipulated what colour knickers I should wear, there is NO WAY I wouldn't know exactly what kind of trash event this was and there would be NO WAY I would do the work.

Bluelady · 24/01/2018 22:27

If that's the case, then you've never been broke, Flowerpot. Or if you have you've forgotten what it was like.

Bluelady · 24/01/2018 22:29

And, as I've pointed out before, in your day even Playboy bunnies didn't get groped. The clients were only allowed to look, not touch.

Original poster

Nibblertron · 24/01/2018 22:31

Ignoring the silly posts like “what about Race for Life / hen parties / testicular cancer support groups” which spectacularly miss the point, it does irritate me that we still have a society where women can be blocked from significant social events for no good reason.

Even clubs that exclude the other sex I find a bit odd and unnecessary. I think the WI is probably rather outdated now, and the Freemasons should probably not exist.

Of course drunk women braying at the Chippendales is unsavoury, but I bet it is a drop in the ocean compared to the frequency and intensity of events where women are doing the “entertaining”.

I still don’t understand how a social event can purposely bar women and be lawful. If it had barred black people it would have been illegal, so why not illegal considering it barred women? Both sex and race are protected characteristics.

OP posts:

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 24/01/2018 22:31

flowerpot

I think its the whole 'values and they should have known by what they were asked to wear what would happen ' thing you've got going

Flowerpot1234 · 24/01/2018 22:31

Bluelady
Neither are true. You know that of course, but it doesn't suit you when other people make the choices you want to believe they don't have, to excuse those who make different choices.

I've been broke. And I remember it all too well. And I tell you this: that hostessing at an event like this would be booked well in advance. That temping agencies, shops, restaurants are brimming with jobs that would pay the same, that there is an abundance of quick to earn, one-evening only work out there. And I can tell you there is no way on earth I would have taken that work.

iamyourequal · 24/01/2018 22:32

AssassinatedBeauty

Why, @iamyourequal? Why is it important for you to try to normalise this experience as something to be expected and accepted? Sorry for late response, I couldn't find the thread again..lol. I'm not saying this is something to be accepted. I just think the reporting and commenting on this has been a bit hysterical at times today. Radio 4 interviewed one of the hostesses and her lived experience of being a hostess at this event sounded very far removed from that of a naïve and exploited person who didn't know what she was getting into. I also can't believe the poster who thought £175 was hardly any money for 6 hours work!

KateSheppard · 24/01/2018 22:32

What if you were 19 and flat broke with limited family support, flowerpot? What if your choices were really limited?

What would it take for you to overcome the doubts in your mind as you were (strategically and deliberately) last minute presented with this additional information? What level of poverty would cause you to say to yourself "no, I'm sure it'll be fine, they wouldn't do that to us, this event has been going for years, so and so politician will be attending, it'll be fine, it HAS to be fine."

Pure. Privilege.

Flowerpot1234 · 24/01/2018 22:35

Rufustherenegadereindeer1
I honestly can't remember what I wrote, but surely it doesn't break guidelines to write an answer to another poster who asked why do women do this to ourselves - that it is not all women, and one reason is down to values. I also never wrote that they should have expected to be groped or manhandled, what I remember writing was something to the effect of that if it is stipulated that they must wear a certain colour of underwear, that leads to the assumption that this underwear will be on show somehow - knowing that to happen, not anything else.

Bluelady · 24/01/2018 22:37

How would I know anything about you? You're a name on a forum.

I do know that blaming young, broke women trying to make an honest buck for the disgraceful behaviour of entitled middle aged men who should know better is contemptible.

Flowerpot1234 · 24/01/2018 22:38

KateSheppard
What if you were 19 and flat broke with limited family support, flowerpot? What if your choices were really limited?

I have been. You have no idea. It doesn't matter how many scenarios you give me, I'm afraid you are not going to like my response. I would find alternatives, I would make different choices from all the alternatives that actually, yes really, do exist out there. I wonder why some of you refuse to accept the reality that some of us have actually lived.

KateSheppard · 24/01/2018 22:38

Perhaps women should start thinking about which businesses on that Guardian list no longer fit our values.

Based on that list:
Top Shop and Co
Longleat
Zizzi

KateSheppard · 24/01/2018 22:39

"choices"

Assumption of choices.

Flowerpot1234 · 24/01/2018 22:41

Bluelady

I do know that blaming young, broke women
There is no evidence at all that they were broke. Please stop making this up.

trying to make an honest buck for the disgraceful behaviour of entitled middle aged men who should know better is contemptible.
I agree. That would be contemptible. Fortunate that I have never once said or inferred that then.

I recognise your username from before. Don't you do this a lot - always claiming posters say something they haven't, then arguing ferociously against the false version you've made up, instead of what they've actually written.