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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To Not Understand How There Can Be a Men-Only Event

187 replies

Nibblertron · 24/01/2018 10:14

The charity event with captans of industry and celebs etc, with the harrassment allegations.... news.trust.org/item/20180124100129-in2a3/

How can this happen? Imagine if there was a Whites-only event, or an Able-Bodied-only event, there would be outrage.

Why is it OK to have men-only social events?

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 24/01/2018 17:16

No! I really can't accept that. You are saying that normal, everyday women see themselves as sexual commodities and will put up with anything for a handful of cash!

That really isn't true! It is also quite insulting. And has some awful corollaries (like they deserved it cos they got paid etc - not that I am saying that is what you meant).

Why did those women, knowing they had to be pretty, thin, dressed a certain way and sign a gagging order, think that was all they were worth?

Vacuous blonde jokes anyone?
Looking for a sugar daddy cliché?
Too stupid to do anything else?

What range of social constructs overcame common sense?

caperberries · 24/01/2018 17:57

Bluelady is absolutely right. The hostesses were all there because they needed the money.

Bluelady · 24/01/2018 18:03

A lot of them were students, desperately trying to pay their way through their degree courses. I'm arguing the exact opposite of "they deserve it because they got paid". I'm saying that a lot of them would have said "Fuck this, I'm off" if they hadn't needed the money. Easiest way to oppress anyone of any gender - keep them short of money and anxious about it.

Flowerpot1234 · 24/01/2018 18:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Nanny0gg · 24/01/2018 18:32

Yes the WI is one of them but as far as I know it’s not closed to men

Just for info: Men cannot join the WI. They can attend social events if invited. They can come to monthly meetings if they're open to the public but that's just to hear the speaker. They can come to a normal monthly meeting if they are a carer for a member. They can join if they identify as a woman.

So the WI is still more-or-less a women's group.

Bluelady · 24/01/2018 18:42

Flowerpot, if you don't know how you're going to pay your rent at the end of the month, your values take a bit of a back seat. You absolutely can't compare women having to do things thar name them desperately uncomfortable with female celebrities. And you're basically says no what I was wrongly accused of which is that those women knew what they were letting themselves in for or deserved those men pawing them about.

BonnieF · 24/01/2018 19:02

I have no issue with 'women only' events, gyms , clubs, societies etc etc, therefore I have to objection to men only likewise. I am in favour of equality, not 'one rule for us, another for them'.

I also have no objection to young people being employed as paid 'eye candy'. What I do object to is people of any gender being groped and assaulted when they are making the most of their good looks to earn a few quid.

dogsdinnerlady · 24/01/2018 19:14

There are other ways to earn a few quid without wearing a short skirt for dirty old men.

Bluelady · 24/01/2018 19:22

So much for female solidarity - blame the woman. Dear God, feminism hasn't got us far, has it?

ForalltheSaints · 24/01/2018 19:27

It is not that the event was men only, it was the behaviour of some of the men there and the expectations put on the women working there that are objectionable.

Mountainpika · 24/01/2018 19:34

Men only dinner to raise money for charity.

Fine.

As long as all the waiting staff etc. are properly dressed men.

And women only events of a similar kind should be just that - all females.

Tipsntoes · 24/01/2018 19:38

I have to admit that I was surprised to learn these events still happen, especially sponsored by big corporates.

I complained made a reasoned objection in 1992, when the large corporate bank I was working for sent some staff to such a networking event. They never supported it again, that's 25 years ago Shock

I always refuse to go to "Women in Business" type events too.

AssassinatedBeauty · 24/01/2018 19:42

It doesn't matter if the women employed at this event enjoy dressing sexily and enjoy being appreciated by men. They should not therefore expect to be sexually assaulted and treated like pieces of meat to be used as these men see fit. They should not expect to have penises flashed at them or asked if they will take their knickers off and dance on the tables. They were at work. Doing what was presented as a normal waitressing job. To suggest that they therefore deserve or should expect to be treated this way is simply wrong.

Why do people have such pathetically low expectations of men? That it's inevitable that they will behave like this when in the presence of women they find sexy? It's grim.

ClaryFray · 24/01/2018 19:45

They hand female only events.

At kink events females get in for lower, couples and single males are more expensive.

It's a both sex thing, not just a female oppression eye rolls

There is female only gyms. No male only as far as I'm aware.

CaoNiMa · 24/01/2018 19:48

"The club is very cheap to drink in otherwise I would report it as I'm sure it's not legal."

Talk about 'I'm alright, Jack'. Sheesh!

Sod the rampant misogyny. As long as I can get a pint on the cheap!

specialsubject · 24/01/2018 19:48

As a small aside it seems that the mark Carney lunch was a prize awarded elsewhere and being regifted. Doing so was not allowed for the original prize and the bank of england says it has no association with the presidents club.

I don't particularly like the membership bar of the women's institute or the men's shed ( much rather join the latter) but I don't think either run an event of this kind.

AssassinatedBeauty · 24/01/2018 19:49

If you think it's the same your wilfully ignoring important aspects of these situations.

Of course there are men only gyms.

Are kink events usually organised by the local women's CEO and business women's organisation who hire young attractive men to take part who are told they will be waiters?

QuentinSummers · 24/01/2018 19:49

but with only those 2 requests, nothing else, why didn't every woman interviewed just laugh and walk out?
Really?!

  1. They really needed the money.
  1. They were naive and thought it would be like working in a bar/normal hospitality.
  1. They were scared because they'd handed over their phones and signed a legalese document before they knew what was going on.
  1. They didn't want to look immature or stupid.

What I want to know is, why did none of the fine upstanding men attending leave and complain to the hotel? Why are you focussing this on the women and not asking about the men there?

steff13 · 24/01/2018 19:52

Men-only events are fine. I belong to a woman-only group, The DAR; all of our events are women-only.

This event however, does not sound fine.

squishysquirmy · 24/01/2018 19:59

Sorry, but all this talk of "values" and "they should have known what to expect" etc is bullshit.

I am sure some of the women attending knew what this type of event was like. Many did not or if they had an inkling, did not expect it to be as bad as it was.

If I was 19, looking for extra money waitressing etc, there is NO WAY I would assume that serving drinks at a charity event at a prestigious, respectable hotel for £15 an hour would involve "extras". They may have twigged that they were effectively being paid to look pretty, but I don't think they were given any reason to suspect what went on at that event.
I would probably feel quite excited about it - a posh black tie do at glamorous location with the famous and powerful. Imagine expecting that, and then the growing realisation of what you have actually signed up for....
They ask you to wear black underwear? Well, maybe there's UV lighting, or they've had problems in the past with girls showing up with bright pink bra straps on show... it is a charity event at a respectable, posh hotel.
They give all the women skimpy outfits shortly before the show starts?
Well, its a uniform and you accept a part of your role is to be decorative. That doesn't mean you expect to be groped.

And then once they're there, they're there and its hard to walk out.
Especially if the agency wont call you again. And you've had your phone confiscated. And your bag with your money and oyster card are in the dressing room, which you can't get back to because the bouncers specially hired to keep the women in place are blocking the way. And you're drunk, because they kept telling you to drink and you were supposed to "keep them happy". You don't know what your rights are, you are questioning your own instincts because its such a prestigious event- surely you're the one with the problem? etc etc etc.

But yeah, these young women only found themselves in this position because "they have no values."

illustrious · 24/01/2018 20:00

I think arguments about women only events, women only gyms etc. are completely missing the point about this event. This was a major PROFESSIONAL event, with leaders and influencers in big business attending and MEN only. To me it beggars belief that an event like this that excludes the women in those very businesses at all levels and SPONSORED by big name companies can even exist. It's the ultimate glass ceiling this "presidents' club which is essentially suggesting that women aren't or can't be presidents.
And that's not even taking into account their appalling behaviour on the night. How, seriously, HOW are women in business supposed to get ahead when this is an acceptable culture? Exclusion for the women who work in these companies, and harrassment for the ones hired as staff at the event?

KateSheppard · 24/01/2018 20:03

"I have my set of values"

Women who claim they could never stoop so low as to work as [insert desperate struggling classes job here] do not have values.

They have privilege.

QuentinSummers · 24/01/2018 20:03

Great post squishy

Bluelady · 24/01/2018 20:08

Good point, Kate.

Mycatisahacker · 24/01/2018 20:08

Totally agree illustrious I cant understand this at all!

Do these companies have share holders? Who are they? Are the women working in these companies at a similar level to the men excluded? Why?

It all seems so 1970s and old fashioned. And I temember the 70s! Not good.