To feel that you cant talk about being proud to bf?

[TwilightRiver]

Just to start I am not trying to be goady, and not wanting this to be bf vs ff.

I respect everyones right to choose how to feed their baby.

I haven been bf my lo for 5 months and am very proud of that fact. I have had very little problems and been fortunate enough to have avoided mastitis and thrush so far but its still been so bloody hard.

I have close friends that have babies amd chose to ff . I feel that i can't talk about it for fear of them thinking im getting at them or getting into a whole debate.

I also find that people find its's acceptable to make comments to a mum in regard to bf. 'Maybe theyre not getting enough' "They need water' 'no one else gets to feed, when you giving a bottle'. They wouldn't dream of making such comments to a mother whos ff or criticize her for her choice.

This is also extended to medical professionals. Here ff babies are weighed when born and again when transfered to hv. No weigh ins with midwife on return from hospital. where as bf babies are weighed on return fron hispital then 5 days then weekly. Apparently this is because they know how much ff babies are getting. Its like they are going back on the whole 'breast is best' and expecting you to fail. Or should be the same policy regardless of method of feeding.

I’ve started it in feminism. Because I beleive it’s a feminist issue. Tied up with patriarchal views of women’s abilities to make decisions.

Anyway. I shall bow out of this threadnow.

Bluedoglead-I am very sorry you are so upset and had such a horrible time. But it is not fair if you to say I am being unkind, unfeminist and all the other things you said because I think that many women (not necessarily you, but possibly even you) were let down by the level of support and help available, and that is wrong. Women should be able to choose how they feed their babies from a position of knowledge and strength. In countries where women get proper support, bf rates are very high. There is nothing wrong with choosing not to bf. There is something very wrong with being forced into stopping because you don't get the help you need..

Bertrand. I said - again - that I read an inference in it. Me. Not you. That the issue was mine.

Ffs.

@MissMouseMcPhee Definitely a bit of both. I loathe the word as used to describe people. Invariably women. And it always comes up on this subject and any thread about infertility.

You can be proud, of course you can. The thing is tho you have to also be sensitive about the fact the some people cant or dont want to. My friend had a terrible time breastfeeding and eventually had to stop. She just wasnt producing enough milk. I also found it difficult but did manage to do it for the first year... and of course I am proud of that but by the same token i wouldn never bang on about it in front of my friend because she also tried really hard and its not her fault that her body couldnt do it in the end. Its just luck of the draw often, not entirely down to hard work... so im proud that I got thru it because i found it hard but i cant completely take credit for it because at the end of the day i was lucky that my body produced enough milk, and i was lucky to have plenty of support.

You can be proud of achieving something you set out to do and struggled with initially, without judging the choices and struggles of other people.

Fair enough, bluedoglead-I'll ignore the bits where you said you were shocked to read what I posted and I should try being kind. And that I was silencing and being anti feminist.

I think it would be kinder to just drop it tbh Bertrand.

It is my opinion that you were unkind and that your stance towards me re BF is anti feminist

For what its worth I believe you bluedog.

No. But sometimes it is a case of it would have worked if you had tried not harder but differently.

The nhs gives shocking advice to new mothers. Recently, two people I know were told to feed their newborns every 4 hours. One then didn't have sufficient supply to continue. Tongue-tie checks are totally hit and miss too. The nhs generally hasn't got a clue about the reality, and very common obstacles to, breastfeeding. It's no surprise many women find they cannot bf their babies; they've been given the wrong advice and bf doesn't get established properly, or they're not given the proper help when normal problems arise (thrust, mastitis, poor latch, etc.)

I know that my friend gave up as bf wasn't working and the baby wasn't putting on weight. I had a fair idea of why, and what to do to remedy it, but she wanted to follow her midwife's crap advice and so it didn't work out. I feel awful for her and angry that she didn't get the right support to enable her to bf her baby, as she had wanted to.

The nhs should stop the catchy slogans and posters, and train their staff.

JJPP every time I mentioned the fact I was still pumping to a medical professional, every single time, they asked me why I wasting my time. GPs, nurses, HVs, consultants, every single one. It's absolute madness.

Please remember that intentions don't always translate well in writing sometimes. Bertrand has been posting for a long time and is not unkind. I got into trouble earlier in the thread because someone thought I had been curt and dismissive - it was the way i had posted and not my intention. I think the same thing has happened here.

It's a shame that these interpersonal things are clouding some big issues -

Women are feeling unsupported, both by friends and families and by the organisations who are holding them to certain ideals in the first place.

Women are feeling silenced around infant feeding and this is having a detrimental effect on their mental well-being.

Could we try and turn this thread around and look at positive ways we can affect change?

I havn't managed to read todays updates however I wanted to post to clarify something. My post was referring to discussing bf with those who chose to ff. I know that not everyone makes that choice but rather it is made for them for various reasons and my heart goes out to those women who are in that situation. Whilst i am proud , or pleased that i have been fortunate enough to continue, i am fully aware that allot of it has came down to luck. I have been very lucky they're hasnt been many bumps in the road.

Some posters have wrongly assumed i want to announce to a room fully of people how proud i am to bf. I dont. What i mean is I feel i should be able to talk about it without people automatically thinking im preaching at them. Im not. Nor would I discuss it with someone who i knew had their heart set on bf. I have a friend who did try to bf and she came to me for advice. I gave it then stepped back as i was fully aware of the pressure she may be feeling, particularly because I had managed to do so.

In general i feel the 'breast is best ' mantra has gone too far that its had a negative effect on those who do breastfeed. It gets peoples backs up.

kayla i agree 100%. They continuously say breast is best but the staff really dont have a clue how to deal with common problems. Hcp dont like that they cant see what volume of milk babies are getting. They are trained to inform on the benefits of breastfeeding but not in solving the problems that women may face.

OP I guess one thing to consider is that women who seemingly chose to FF may not really have had much choice in the decision. You'd really need to be sure of your audience.
If course you can be proud of yourself but it would be kind to consider how your pride might effect others (which you probably do already) before sharing it with them.

Totally understand that jj . Here it is the norm to ff. Im definatley in the minority.

pride and privilege are always a problem.

I'm proud of all sorts of things I have done that were very hard for me to do. Some of them eg. managing to survive bedtime with my 6 yo at the weekend, almost noone would understand as difficult. Some of them, like gaining a job as an academic, many people would understand as hard, but it would be controversial in that while I worked hard to get where I am I almost certainly benefited from privilege in being successful.

BF is very tricky. I did it for 3 years with my DD and it was very important to my mental health - but I wouldn't say I was proud because it was very easy for me. I maybe had 3 or 4 days across the 3 years where I would describe it as 'hard work'. I recognise my privilege in this...no tongue ties, no milk production issues, large healthy mature at birth baby who cracked on with it with no help needed...etc. etc.

I think my point if I have one is that regardless of the sphere of endeavour, when expressing pride one has to realise that not everyone has the same experience. Some people won't understand your pride because they don't realise how hard it was for you when it was easy for them (though god knows if people where polite this wouldn't really be an issue - "I'm happy for you" costs nothing, even if in the privacy of your head you are thinking 'wtf'?). Some people will see your pride as hurtful as they perceive the implication that not being able to do the same should be shameful in some way. Again I think politeness goes a long way.

So my solution is don't say "I'm proud to have Bfed"

Say "I'm proud to have overcome the difficulties I faced in BFing, but I know I was also very lucky that my barriers turned out to be surmountable which isn't true for everyone"

YOU should feel proud because it’s not easy. Being proud doesn’t mean being judgmental. But really it’s not worth telling others unless you are strong enough for a fight. I think the amount of animosity against bf mothers is ridiculous.

Damn right I'm proud, it's very, very hard work! Can't be bothered reading through the comments as I'm quite sure there will be people telling you you're insensitive/wrong/an awful person. Well done op I'm proud of you too!

What a charming attitude!

You should be proud OP, so many can't manage it for long if at all. I'm proud that I managed years of BF and donated milk to the hospital milkbank for poorly babies. It's the best start if you can do it so well done.

jj was that in referene to myself ?

No Twilight... it was to the poster who couldn't be bothered thread the thread and instead made assumptions.
Tbh your opening post left me feeling less favourably about you but reading on I can see what you were trying to say. If you know the women you were speaking to chose to FF, never attempted BF and had no reasons why they didn't attempt BFing (ie have no reason to be upset about it) then it would br odd for them to be bothered by you discussing your experiences.

I have close friends that have babies amd chose to ff . I feel that i can't talk about it for fear of them thinking im getting at them or getting into a whole debate.

I feel should be able to say ' yeah still bf, really proud I didnt think we would make it this far

My post was referring to discussing bf with those who chose to ff. I know that not everyone makes that choice but rather it is made for them for various reasons ...

So ... what actually happened OP, in the situation when you were with formula feeders and wanted to say you were proud of breast feeding? You said you were proud of breast feeding and felt the atmosphere went bad, or you didn't say it because you assumed you couldn't talk about it with them?

This is an emotive topic & there's a lot of stuff being said that I doubt people would say face to face (myself included). I don't doubt that there are lots of mothers who can't BF - and I have a great deal of sympathy and compassion for them. It clearly affects people very very deeply and very long term and I don't understand that as I was able to BF so I can't claim to empathise.

What we can't get away from is the fact that our BF rates are low so there are lots of women who could BF that aren't. These fall into 2 camps, those who will happily tell you why and those who tried and feel the need to explain why they didn't. I've heard many of these reasons myself even though I have never asked a women why she didn't breastfeed.

I don't know what the answer is. Unfortunately removing the emotions from the issue and having a sensible discussion isn't likely to happen. For me I think the biggest issue was the romanticised notion that it would be easy and wonderful. I never heard any negative stories beforehand (bloody NCT) just all the best is breast, it's natural stuff. When it turned out to be painful, exhausting and downright hideous after a traumatic and long birth I wasn't prepared. I stuck with it but it was awful, I know a lot of people who didn't (and please, I am not specifically speaking about any one individual. I am not saying I don't believe anyone) I'm just saying that some of the reasons given were along the lines of my supply is low, they're feeding every hour, they're not getting any milk. Sometimes a couple of days in. All of this is not necessary correct and with some support and possibly some forewarning they would have been able to persist and after the first 6-8 weeks it does become so much easier. I also know people of who stopped a few weeks in as they were too embarrassed to feed in public. This is a whole other topic but as a country we have a messed up relationship with BF as a whole.