To feel that you cant talk about being proud to bf?

[TwilightRiver]

Just to start I am not trying to be goady, and not wanting this to be bf vs ff.

I respect everyones right to choose how to feed their baby.

I haven been bf my lo for 5 months and am very proud of that fact. I have had very little problems and been fortunate enough to have avoided mastitis and thrush so far but its still been so bloody hard.

I have close friends that have babies amd chose to ff . I feel that i can't talk about it for fear of them thinking im getting at them or getting into a whole debate.

I also find that people find its's acceptable to make comments to a mum in regard to bf. 'Maybe theyre not getting enough' "They need water' 'no one else gets to feed, when you giving a bottle'. They wouldn't dream of making such comments to a mother whos ff or criticize her for her choice.

This is also extended to medical professionals. Here ff babies are weighed when born and again when transfered to hv. No weigh ins with midwife on return from hospital. where as bf babies are weighed on return fron hispital then 5 days then weekly. Apparently this is because they know how much ff babies are getting. Its like they are going back on the whole 'breast is best' and expecting you to fail. Or should be the same policy regardless of method of feeding.

Some people feel pride for breastfeeding.

Some people think they shouldn't feel pride for breastfeeding.

Some people don't give a flying fuck what other people feel.

Everyone agrees that no one should judge anyone else for either their choices or for their experiences.

It really doesn't have to be so hard.

I am proud I BF for a year and would happily say this. I would also be proud if i'd had a vaginal birth instead of cheating with an elective c section. I would not however think/say I am any better than a Mother for whom breastfeeding didn't happen for whatever reason. It is fine to be proud without insulting anyone else's choices.

I would have loved to have held my babies during every bottle feed - except I had twins, and I was pumping, so unless they decided they were hungry at separate times, and at a point where my entire lap area wasn't full of bottles and tubes, it wasn't an option. I also have longterm back damage from a botched spinal and from pumping, which made life extra difficult. The point is, you have no idea what someone is dealing with and shouldn't make judgements.

There should never be a "but" at the end of the sentence "maternal mental health is important". Maternal mental health is important full stop, and it's sad to see mental health seen as an inadequate reason for stopping or choosing not to bf in a way that physical health would not be.

You don't know that you worked much harder than others - that's what you believe. You don't see what other people go through behind closed doors. Believe me, I didn't pump 12 times a day for 7 months because it was easier!

A c section is cheating?! Wow.

How have we got to a position where having major abdominal surgery while conscious, with no follow up and while caring for a newborn is seen as "cheating"? Christ.

You are totally correct there Tammy.

I'm very much enjoying the juxtaposition between "instead of cheating with an elective c section" and "it's fine to be proud without insulting anyone else's choices" in the same post. I needed a laugh this morning!

"It really doesn't have to be so hard"

I agree. But it is bizarre what a red rag to a bull saying that you enjoyed bf or found it easy is on this, of all forums. I think an earlier poster has got it right that the formula manufacturers have got a lot to answer for.

Obviously it is absolutely fine to make a proper, active choice not to bf for whatever reason. But research from other countries has shown that, with the proper help the overwhelming majority of women can bf. So something is going wrong in this country if lots of women want to but find they can't, to the extent that the narrative had changed to "I will if I can" with the expectation that you probably won't be able to. And the obvious culprit is the people who make their profits from women not bf.

From first hand experience. So clearly there will be bias issues as this is what I have seen.
I have 2 friends who BF for a fortnight and stopped because the baby was needing feeding too regularly for their liking. Instead of putting up with it for the time it takes to get it established and get past the cluster feeding they both switched to formula. So they could get more sleep. I get that I really do BUT not everyone does that.
All I am trying to say is there are people that try and there are people that try harder. Clearly that will touch a nerve with a lot of people so maybe I shouldn't even be saying it. I just don't want to feel guilty for being proud.

And yes, with more support maybe these people would have lasted longer. I tried to support them (probably you can't believe that as I'm sounding like a bitch) but more emphasis on the difficult early days (not for everyone) at antenatal classes etc... and more HV support is clearly needed. We do have issues in this country.

The problem is most definitely with the NHS - they say all the right things about bfing but they have gradually cut back and cut back actual support for those who are struggling. I was stunned that even with my little twin in nicu and seriously unwell, there wasn't a single member of staff who was properly trained in helping me to get him to feed, and when it came time to remove his feeding tube and he still wasn't able to properly latch, bottles were given and that was that really. I don't think it's possible to be more committed to bfing them than I was, the amount of guilt and anguish and pain and I went through trying to make it work is unspeakable. But really the odds were stacked against us from the start and there was no help to mitigate that.

Perhaps I should be proud that I tried as hard as I did, or proud that I pumped (but then in groups I was in, I couldn't even be proud of that because I wasn't "exclusively pumping" because my supply was too low, and not for lack of effort). But still I feel a complete failure. Fortunately the all-consuming sense of failure that I did feel eased when I finally stopped pumping and realised it wasn't the be all and end all, and actually they needed my attention more than they needed me hooked to a pump constantly.

I am doing something about it though - I work with the local CCG now and am constantly pushing the message of feeding support in meetings etc. If we want it to change we have to do something about it.

As a child free woman I just think woah, do people really have such in depth discussions and arguments about how babies are fed? Really? What do some people actually do all day if this is something to get wound up about?

The problem is most definitely with the NHS - they say all the right things about bfing but they have gradually cut back and cut back actual support for those who are struggling

I agree that this is a huge issue. They talk the talk, yet don't do much else, without seeming to understand the effect this can have on mothers.

Your particular case beggars belief, but where it was most obvious to me was tongue tie snipping - waits of 6/8/more weeks for the procedure. By that stage it's far too late. We paid to get it done privately (and it was done and dusted in 2 days) but others aren't in that position.

@barefoofdoctor - that’s a fucking horrendous thing to say. You go through having your stomach sliced open and still say it’s the easy way out!!! And before you say, I’m well aware of the trauma and damage vaginal birth can cause as well - it can be as bad, if not worse

@thedarkprincess - people care about everything you do - birth, ff vs bf, using a sling vs not, what age to start food, how much sleep the baby should get. It’s an endless cycle of abuse of parental choices.

I think when bare said ''I would also be proud if i'd had a vaginal birth instead of cheating with an elective c section.'' she was saying she had the elective CS and is being tongue in cheek about the cheating aspect.

Or maybe not? Perhaps she feels she cheated? She should be allowed to say so if that's how she feels .... is that not the thrust of this thread?

i think you can be proud of it depending on your reasons.

if its because you had tough times and wanted to give up but battled on, yes be proud, if its because you were unsure about it but gave it a shot then yes be proud.
however I don't see the reason for public pride about it.

I would have been so proud if I had managed even one feed for either of my children, sadly they refused to latch even with intensive help from a lactation specialist. I managed a few weeks expressing so I would have been proud.

Now they are teenagers and pride takes a very different form ....oh for those baby days again believe me its simple!! ;)

I had no idea until I had children what a contentious issue it was! And I don't think people tend to have these discussions in real life as it's the kind of thing that could destroy a friendship.

My opinion is that people should try their hardest to BF on account of the myriad of benefits that it offers. I can see that lots and lots of people on here have done that.

The hospital tongue tie clinic wouldn't see us - they only take referrals up to 6 weeks, and my little one was still in hospital by then being tube fed. You'd think they could have assessed him in nicu, but you'd be wrong! I asked nurse after nurse for help with my latch - "looks fine" they'd say as the milk was going in one side of his mouth and out the other until he collapsed exhausted and needed an NG top up.

Yes, I am still bitter! One of the boys came home at 17 days with his feeding tube still in and I tried to alternate bf and tube feedings. He'd be so exhausted he'd pass out at the boob but then wake up immediately screaming and starving. I took him back into nicu and begged for help and they handed me a bottle of formula and a teat. I was too broken to argue.

one local hospital has stopped paying the thousands a year for baby friendly status and has put that money into feeding support. I'm now trying to convince the other to follow suit. What a waste of funds.

you are more fortunate than them because you were able to make it work. That's luck

Bollocks.

I hate crap like this. 'Hey you know that achievement of bf your baby for a year? Mmm, nothing to feel good about, just luck'.

It's such a shitty, spiteful attempt to pull someone down. Not to mention a load of rubbish anyway.

The % of women who are actually completely unable to bf is small. Very small. Most who stop bf do so because it's too hard...which is fair enough. It's what I did twice.

The third time I didn't. I cried and gritted my teeth and cried some more and it bloody hard, horrendously hard for 6 weeks. At any time I could have stopped and said 'Oh I couldn't bf because' and listed all my many problems. But I didn't, I persevered and through sheer bloody mindedness made it work.

So bugger you and your 'luck'. I'm proud at achieving something, third time around, which was really really difficult. Your minimising it doesn't make the achievement any less.

shutupanddance

people care about everything you do - birth, ff vs bf, using a sling vs not, what age to start food, how much sleep the baby should get. It’s an endless cycle of abuse of parental choices

Absolutely - but really it's "maternal" choices cos the Dad's really don't get the same judgements.