To feel that you cant talk about being proud to bf?

[TwilightRiver]

Just to start I am not trying to be goady, and not wanting this to be bf vs ff.

I respect everyones right to choose how to feed their baby.

I haven been bf my lo for 5 months and am very proud of that fact. I have had very little problems and been fortunate enough to have avoided mastitis and thrush so far but its still been so bloody hard.

I have close friends that have babies amd chose to ff . I feel that i can't talk about it for fear of them thinking im getting at them or getting into a whole debate.

I also find that people find its's acceptable to make comments to a mum in regard to bf. 'Maybe theyre not getting enough' "They need water' 'no one else gets to feed, when you giving a bottle'. They wouldn't dream of making such comments to a mother whos ff or criticize her for her choice.

This is also extended to medical professionals. Here ff babies are weighed when born and again when transfered to hv. No weigh ins with midwife on return from hospital. where as bf babies are weighed on return fron hispital then 5 days then weekly. Apparently this is because they know how much ff babies are getting. Its like they are going back on the whole 'breast is best' and expecting you to fail. Or should be the same policy regardless of method of feeding.

I think the thing is that i can say I tried my hardest to bf. And I know that’s true. The decision was taken out of my hands and the doctors made the decision that baby had to have high calorie formula as they were failure to thrive.

The minute I say that, or said that, I get/got “did you try xyz did you do blah some babies need this”

You’re disbelieved and there is an assumption on the part of others that you didn’t try hard enough, they would have done whatever whatever and it would have worked for them.

And that makes me feel terrible to this day. I still feel incredibly guilty that one of mine wasn’t bf nd that they didn’t get the same start as the others.

And statements like bf is best for every child, and even the “there needs to be more support” - no, it wouldn’t have helped me. I had fed other children very successfully before and I knew what I was doing. I went for support. The midwives the HV the drop in was all great.

It wasn’t my fault. It wasn’t me. It wasn’t something I didn’t do.

And I need thatto be heard and understood.

No actually, what you're saying is bollocks. It is lucky that you were able to make it work.

What's also bollocks is, as I've already said, this idea that only a tiny percentage of women can't breastfeed. It may be true that only that many women can't produce milk or are physically restricted from feeding, but there are myriad reasons that bfing will fail, especially without adequate expert assistance, regardless of effort.

You are saying that you believe you tried harder than me and many of the other women who failed, and I don't believe that for a second. I didn't pump for 7 months, 12 times a day as dictated by an alarm on my phone, because I couldn't be arsed to bf.

It's like a marathon runner telling someone with severe chronic fatigue or pain that they're so proud they could run a marathon because they tried so hard, failing to understand that the other person puts in just as much effort to achieve basic tasks on a daily basis, every single day.

I'm sure it was very difficult for you, and it's great that you persevered. But if you can't see that the implication from your post is that you succeeded because you tried harder, I don't know how to explain it to you.

Tammy, in your situation there is no way you could have done better than you did. You should feel incredibly proud for how you coped in those first few weeks and I can't believe what you experienced from the professionals.

I was trying not to be judgemental with my initial post as I said how much I feel for those that really try.

However I agree with Magic as I also find this luck thing patronising. You are in a specific situation that is much much more difficult than most women. I probably wouldn't have lasted as long as you did if I was in your position, I don't know how you did it. However, a lot of women are not prepared to go to that kind of effort to make BF work. As I said, I've witnessed this myself and maybe I don't know my friends, maybe I don't have a clue what's going on behind closed doors but I think trying your hardest (at anything) is something to be proud of.

I was so grateful I COULD breastfeed. Yes I thought it was probably the best choice for my baby but also for me - there was an element of selfishness certainly.

I am a lazy lump at the best of times and the prospect of getting up in the middle of the night to fiddle with bottles and powders and boiling water and sterilizers and whatever else is involved was absolute anathema to me. I never judged people who chose to or had to formula feed - in fact,I regarded them with some awe - their organisational skills must be phenomenal.

Could have done without the mastitis though :(

Main thing is baby is baby is fed in a suitable way whatever way that may be.

But Tammy, if you think you and Magic are of equal chances in this case, and have the same issues, then yes, technically speaking it would be true that Magic did try harder.

Tbh, yes, Magic did try harder than a lot of people trying to BF but didn't purely because of the pain/soreness, hell establishing it etc etc. She overcame those barriers.

I'm not saying Magic is the better Mum for this. Personally, I would have given up on Day 1 if BF was uncomfortable because I think BF is the best milk but happy Mum is more important.

Just like most BF mums I meet seem to have tried harder than me, I didn't try at all. Just came naturally so I've no claim to be proud really since I didn't sweet fanny Adams to get there. If anything, BF was the easy was out for me, because it's the least effort for me

And Sandy, no, it’s really not something to be proud of. How sad for you that you think it is! Personally, I have actual accomplishments that I’m proud of and therefore don’t need to feel any sort of superiority about the random biological occurrence that made me a female.

Surely we can be proud of multiple things at once? I mean, I've done lots of things I'm proud of. Doesn't matter whether anyone else would be proud of them.

I also dont believe it to be true that ff babies sleep better, Not in my experience at all, My babies have been terrible sleepers and were ff, They were constantly fed and up most of the night. All babies are different no matter how they are fed.

@MissMouseMcPhee - absolutely.

Dads do get judged, just in a different way I think. My DH was told why would he take more than 2 days off when I had my DD1, could he not just hire a nanny or get my family to come and look after the baby? He was about this as he had phoned his work to tell them he was taking his paternity leave.

It’s constant and relentless shaming people over their decisions about their families. I do think women need to be more forgiving on themselves - why such mummy guilt? We are all trying our hardest.

I also dont believe it to be true that ff babies sleep better, Not in my experience at all, My babies have been terrible sleepers and were ff, They were constantly fed and up most of the night. All babies are different no matter how they are fed.

I totally agree with this. DS was a great sleep in the early days (slept through from 10 weeks) and was BF. It went to pot a bit later on, but it wasn't to do with feeding.

I also dont believe it to be true that ff babies sleep better, Not in my experience at all

It might be on average, but whose baby is average? I've been totally missold my ff baby, she is a terror at night.

My BF twins sleep through 12 hours a night and have done from 3 months. My F2F first born didn't sleep through until he was 2

I don’t understand why being proud of reaching a goal you set yourself means you think you worked harder than other people to reach it. For example, I’m proud that I achieved a good degree from a top uni. I know I worked hard for it, but I also know that I was fortunate to have some circumstances that made this possible for me, for instance parents who supported my decision to attend uni. Someone else might have worked as hard as me and not succeeded for reasons outside their control. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong for me to be proud of my qualification though.

The same with BF, I’m proud that I managed to BF as this is important to me, but I don’t in any way think it makes me better or more hardworking than a person who wasn’t able to, or chose not to BF.

Its absolutely exhausting when your baby is constantly waking in the night to feed, I wouldnt say its easier to ff constantly making bottles throughout the night with a screaming baby having to wait while you warm their feed, worrying the other children are going to wake up with all the noise.
The first years of each baby I dont know how I did it up most of the night and up early for the school run, I ended up putting the kettle in the fridge constantly, Throwing my car keys away and loosing my bankcard 3 times through sheer exhaustion but we got through it, Stuff worrying about ff or breastmilk just getting through that first year was hard enough trying to be awake!

Exactly. I measured what makes me proud against myself, not others...if that makes sense.

Bertrand I agree. I think it’s almost impossible to tread the line of improving rates of breastfeeding (most women want to and start off b/feeding) without offending. I feel really uncomfortable with ‘fed is best’ because although that’s a good message in a last resort scenario they totally undermine breastfeeding and circulate misinformation. I honestly think the main thing women are lacking is nerve because they’re undermined from day 1. No one realises that it’s fine for babies not to have any milk for up to 4 days and they get spooked. I only powered through it because I had unwavering support from my mum who b/fed 3 babies who assured me it was normal. That is not to say that some women can not breastfeed.

I don't think the issue is that you shouldn't feel proud. OK wanted to feel proud and tell all her FF friends just how proud she was. That's when it became an issue for a lot of women.
I tried a whole lot harder with my son who was FF than these twins. I don't feel hugely proud that they're breastfed, just relieved really. The struggle of building supply with a baby who can't latch well is a nightmare. You breastfeed, then formula feed then pump every 2 hours, with all the sterilizing etc that that entails and even then it can be so hard to build your supply enough (Tammy, seriously no idea how you did that with two, much respect from me!). Could I have eventually EBF my son? Probably but it likely would have driven me mad in the process. The sense of failure I felt at not being able to nourish my baby the way nature intended practically broke me. I developed PND that took years to recover from. It doesn't seem hugely rational to me now but at the time BFing was EVERYTHING.
If one of my friends sat there and told me how proud she was to be BFing her baby I'd probably have burst into tears. None of them knew about my struggles but it had a huge affect on me. I just think it's kinder to not discuss potentially really emotive issues like this. There aren't many topics that need to be avoided but this is probably one of them.

What I don’t understand is the finality of the BF debate. It comes across as if some women feel that all they have to do to be a good mother is BF but what happens after? There are many years between the early years and the emergence of a fully formed adult. Peaches Geldof EBF and clearly thought that and co-sleeping was all it took....

Motherhoood lasts your child’s lifetime. Feeding them is the first of many many phases. It’s a marathon not a sprint that ends when they start weening and if BF is literally the only thing you’re proud of, the thing that millions of women have done for thousands of years then it sounds like your life must be quite limited.

Can honestly say I've never heard any parents being judged on how they feed their children. It's just not relevant to other people's lives. I would be very surprised that someone is proud of breastfeeding. Surely it's just something some women choose to do that others don't?

People are proud of the most daft things these days.

and if BF is literally the only thing you’re proud of

On come on Unfinished!

Where has anyone said that breastfeeding was the only thing they are proud of?

Where has anyone said that the only thing you need to do to be a good mother is breastfeed?

Every woman is differently mentally, Every womans body works differently, Every baby is different some cry alot, some dont, Some feed alot some dont, Some mothers have lots of help, some have none, Some have other kids to look after some only have the one.
Everybodys lives are always different so to think you tried harder isnt correct because everyone is coming at it from a different perspective it isnt a level playing field.
I dont think women should feel guilt for not breastfeeding as pp said its about being a mother, and is only a very small part of your whole path as a mother if you have fed them either way you are doing it right.

I would be very surprised that someone is proud of breastfeeding. Surely it's just something some women choose to do that others don't?

It’s something that’s important to many mums, with the health benefits for mum and baby being a big factor in that. It’s also not always easy. I think it’s perfectly natural to feel proud of achieving a goal you set yourself, particularly if you had to overcome obstacles to achieve it.

But just because some people do better than others doesn't mean the person who didn't do as good can't be proud???

Pride is very personal.

I'm proud to run a half marathon.

I don't go - "Oh, I can't be proud because it wasn't a full marathon and some people do those."

If you work hard for something and get a good outcome (in your eyes) then you have a right to feel proud.

And my act of feeling proud in myself isn't a comment on anything anyone else has or hasn't done.

I'm proud of ME.

I can of course be proud of other people too, but if I'm not proud of them it doesn't mean they shouldn't be proud of themselves.

And there’s a sort of vicious circle going on here. We have a narrative in this country that bf is incredibly difficult and painful and loads of people can’t do it but at the same time we tell people who do achieve this incredibly difficut painful thing that they are not allowed to be proud of themselves for doing it...,,

But what if you’re not proud.. what if you did what is considered wrong and people,comment that they would’ve done this and that and the ithern(and you finish the sentence in your head because you know they mean and it would have worked for me)

And you know that people think you didn’t try hard enough because they tell you. And you know you did the wrong thing and that you should have tried harder and that feeling makes you think your baby would be better off without you and you work out the life insurance and decide it really is a better option.

Why is it not ok to say I’m hurting this hurts me please be sensitive in what you say