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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think choking during the sex is no go...

199 replies

drecmore · 19/01/2018 15:58

Been together 10 years, few months ago he admitted he doesn't love me, can't see the relationship going forward etc.

Anyway after talking and debating we decided to give ourselves another go...

Few nights ago went out for dinner. Surpassingly we had really good time, drank too much wine and somehow I asked him if he had any sexual fantasies (we didn't have sex for moths now as he was "leaving" me, unhappy and not interested).

Well he said he's really into choking, spanking and waxing.... (giving not receiving)

Wtf I am supposed to think about it???

OP posts:
WombOfOnesOwn · 20/01/2018 19:03

Choking and other "submissive" activities are enjoyed by women because they induce a condition known as "trauma bonding," in which people closely bond hormonally after a situation that created anxiety, fear, or trauma.

Trauma bonding is so omnipresent in social interactions that in studies, people will rate a tour guide as more attractive after crossing a rickety wooden bridge than after crossing a sturdy bridge. When we feel afraid or out of control, it creates an inherent desire to bond with whomever we are near to. This is probably a very good evolutionary idea, since many early human traumas likely involved depopulation of tribal populations that then needed to band together even more closely in order to survive.

Inducing trauma bonding intentionally through dangerous sexual acts is not somehow making you more intimate or close to your partner.

You feel more intimate and close because of a hormonal surge, but and here's the part most kinky women forget about it's not reciprocated. There's no trauma bonding on the part of the person who's inflicting the trauma on you. You feel the rush of intimacy. All they feel is that they've managed to achieve orgasm by devaluing and demeaning their partner.

Over time, this results in more and more asymmetry: one partner feels increasingly bonded to the other in an emotionally intimate way, and grows to associate intimacy with traumatic events, often to the point of being unable to feel it when in more traditionally intimate situations. The dominant partner, meanwhile, is learning to associate inflicting pain and fear with achieving orgasm, creating a dopamine release cycle that can become addictive and that will often require escalation to reach the same "high" as before.

The trauma-bonded partners of these dominant men have an impossible task when they realize their partner has turned genuinely abusive -- is ignoring safe words, for instance, or constantly pressing at hard limits. They must extricate themselves from their traumatic situation even though their brain chemistry has convinced them that the trauma itself is the core of their relationship, and their dominant partner believes (rightly so!) that the best way to keep them in line and feeling closely bonded is to continue inflicting traumas and then administering "aftercare."

The sadism/aftercare cycle in kink is a deliberate tactic to induce trauma bonding from the submissive partner. Yet we are so used to taking our feelings at face value, rather than interrogating the source and healthiness of these feelings, that many women believe the bonding and closeness they feel after these sessions is both real and reciprocal. Most are devastated when they discover that however much the dominant man in these situations seems kind during the "aftercare" part of the scenario (much like men often seem kind during the "honeymoon" phase following an abusive act -- funny how the tactics are the same, no?), he is not actually bonding from these acts and is instead on a path toward escalation of pain and fear.

papayasareyum · 20/01/2018 20:48

Wombofonesown: that’s a brilliant post.
Fifty Fucking Shades of Grey has a lot to answer for.

WhatToDoAboutThis2017 · 20/01/2018 20:56

WombOfOnesOwn In the wise words of Friends... could you BE talking anymore bullshit? Grin

Fifty Fucking Shades of Grey has a lot to answer for.

The BDSM community was around decades before FSoG, and actually condemns FSoG because it doesn’t portray a BDSM relationship but rather an abusive one.

Those ignorant of BDSM often fall into the trap of believing FSoG is acceptable. It isn’t.

Butterymuffin · 20/01/2018 21:14

That's very interesting though about trauma bonding. I asked earlier about number of women who like being choked vs number of men, in porn that is. Don't know if anyone cares to report their impressions. But on this thread, while I haven't counted precisely, there are quite a number of women who've said they enjoy being choked, but none I recall who've said 'I like doing this to my DP. SGB was speaking more generally about domination, I believe.

itsbetterthanabox · 20/01/2018 21:19

@WhatToDoAboutThis2017
In what way is she speaking bullshit?

WhatToDoAboutThis2017 · 20/01/2018 21:45

In what way is she speaking bullshit?

Trauma is a distressing event. Safe, sane and consensual BDSM is not trauma; anyone who thinks it is is exceptionally ignorant.

itsbetterthanabox · 20/01/2018 21:58

@WhatToDoAboutThis2017
Your body processes pain in the same way and releases the same hormones in response. Doesn’t matter if you said you wanted it.

WhatToDoAboutThis2017 · 20/01/2018 22:57

itsbetterthanabox You do realise that you can have submission without pain, right? That pain is actually only a tiny fraction of submission?

BreconBeBuggered · 20/01/2018 23:27

Don't know anything about choking, but how common is it for the woman to be the 'dominant' participant, if that's the correct term? Is it a different scenario altogether from having female BDSM doms?

itsbetterthanabox · 20/01/2018 23:32

@WhatToDoAboutThis2017
We are talking about choking..
that’s harming someone else physically. It’s a physical trauma.

NormaNameChange · 20/01/2018 23:43

@WhatToDoAboutThis2017

As a masochist and not in the slightest bit submissive i can assure you, I most certainly do experience physical trauma and she does indeed make a lot of sense. Ive been in the scene long enough to have seen it many times, sadly. Whilst it may not be true for you.. doesnt make it any less real

ReanimatedSGB · 21/01/2018 00:55

There are a lot of women who like to be the dominant one in BDSM games. There always have been. And a lot of people in and around the fetish scene get very tired of the representation of kinky sex as always being about heterosexual couples, with the man being the dominant one - unless it's point'n'laugh at the idea of a man submitting to a woman; tee hee, Miss Whiplash... or the idea that the only time women are sexually dominant is when they are being paid to do so.

As to the stuff about trauma bonding - meh. Lots of people have happy, consensual, mutually respectful and caring BDSM dates/relationships. Some people who take both kink and relationships a bit more seriously find the bond between them (giver and reciever) is more intense... or so they say. But it doesn't follow on at all that the dominant one cares nothing for the submissive one and holds him/her in contempt. Many dominant types get off on the trust the partner places in them, along with other aspects of doing something 'taboo' together.
Yes, there is a problem with abusers using kink as a cover for their abusive natures but it's about the same percentage as it is in the non-kinky population. Are you as horrified by people who engage in contact sports or risky stuff like cave-diving? (There are elements of bonding in that sort of thing as well, of course.)

The endorphine/dopamine stuff is probably nearer to the truth. I've certainly heard it before. People's brains and bodies work differently.
(It remains 100% true that if you don't like the idea of BDSM you shouldn't do it, because you won't enjoy it. It is a big mistake to try it just to please a partner who wants to give it a go, and this is true whether your eager partner is dominant or submissive. If it's not for you, if it's never interested you, then that's absolutely fine.

WinchestersInATardis · 21/01/2018 05:57

Don't know anything about choking, but how common is it for the woman to be the 'dominant' participant, if that's the correct term? Is it a different scenario altogether from having female BDSM doms?

Actually it's extremely common. My experience of the BDSM community is that there are at least as many male submissive s as female.
My preference is for the submissive role but I've taken the dominant one too, and it was an enormous amount of fun, not least because I knew exactly why being dominated was getting my male partner so very hot and bothered Grin

As for that post about Fifty Shades and trauma bonding, that was utter nonsense.

As pp have said BDSM has been around long before Fifty Shades and if you ask anyone actually involved in BDSM what they think of it, you'll be told that Christian Grey needs to have his whip confiscated until he learns to behave like an actual dom and not an abusive asshole.

Gladiola44 · 21/01/2018 08:29

My experience of the BDSM community is that there are at least as many male submissive s as female.

Rubbish.

Batteriesallgone · 21/01/2018 08:42

Well, as someone who is into this OP, I think it’s a positive thing he’s never mentioned it.

Stuff like this should always be suggested by the recipient. Otherwise it’s hugely open to abuse.

Basically he respected you enough to not want to abuse you. Now the relationship is over, he’s said well I guess there are these sexual activities I’d like to do with someone. Imagine if he’d said I’d like to sleep with a man, I think I might be bi. It’s not something you can or want to fulfil. He shouldn’t have told you but it doesn’t have to mean he’s cruel.

Moussemoose · 21/01/2018 08:45

Gladiol is that response based on personal experience, linkable facts or prejudice?

Toadinthehole · 21/01/2018 09:08

Sounds like being the sub is much more fun. Control, plus you get to lie there while your partner does all the hard work.

WinchestersInATardis · 21/01/2018 09:23

My experience of the BDSM community is that there are at least as many male submissives as female.

rubbish

That one word tells me you genuinely have no idea how BDSM works in real life.

There are a lot of male subs.

WinchestersInATardis · 21/01/2018 09:34

Also, I think we're derailing the OPs thread. Apologies, OP.
I see a poster has started a 'why BDSM' thread in sex boards so those of us wanting to discuss this further should probably head over there.
Again, OP. Apologies for the derailment.

Scrumplestiltskin · 21/01/2018 09:55

I love how the "submissive" women here say, in response to Womb's brilliant post:
No! It's not that informative and logical explanation! We just...like it. For...reasons... You're talking shit!
So persuasive.
Hmm

Moussemoose · 21/01/2018 09:59

Submissive sexually does not mean submissive in life. Far from it in fact.

As previous posters have suggested many men are submissive sexually.

It is the fact that submission is a long way from what the world sees that makes it a turn on.

WhatToDoAboutThis2017 · 21/01/2018 12:14

Scrumplestiltskin It’s not our job to persuade you to not be so ignorant and judgemental.

Moussemoose · 21/01/2018 12:29

Nobody should 'persuade' anybody.

If you don't want it don't do it. If you want to safe, sane and consensual - like any sexual practice.

governess · 18/02/2018 10:13

waxing ? - as in giving you waxing ala bikini wax , or just pouring wax over you ?

Either option is a bit strange given the things he said. I doubt he is capable of doing a beauty treatment - I dont think he sounds trustworthy to be in charge of a naked flame.

dump dump dump - I speak as someone who has been through what youre going through

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