Should men pay for dates or at least offer to pay?

[lottieandmia22]

This is a subject I have a lot of mixed feelings about really. On one hand I can see that it's not fair to expect the man to pay. If he was going on many dates initially he'd be severely out of pocket.

BUT my experience of men who don't at least offer to pay is that later on they seem generally tight. OTOH I was very put off by a man who made huge grand gestures.

What have your experiences been?

Very different times from the 60s when the man paid. It's just how it was.

While I absolutely and utterly think it should be 50/50, there’s something true in that men are still paid more for the same work that women also do.

So as a thought experiment:

Two colleagues on a date and they split the bill 50/50 as is right and fair. But the man earns more than the woman for doing exactly the same work. It is of course fair to split the bill but if you look at the disparity in pay then they aren’t on an equal financial basis to start off with and in that regard there is still inequality in their status.

So in general men are financially better off even if they are doing the exact same job as a woman they might be on a date with.

So, no one should expect to be paid for certainly not on the basis of their gender. But in a truly equal society, two people on a date, would hopefully be packing wallets with pay rates that are commensurate.

And of course people do different jobs and earn different wages because of that, but that’s not what I’m talking about here.

With the example of two colleagues out on a date and the man earns more just because he’s a man despite both doing the same job, well it begs the question of why the woman should pay 50/50 when in reality she’s already financially at a disadvantage because of her sex.

So a big fat yay for equality in all things, but it seems weird to be proclaiming equality in paying for things when there is still no equality in pay.

@Reddlion so are you genuinely saying that you would be happy to date a man who held "traditional" views as well? As in he pays for the date "as a gentleman should do" and you happily give up your job, financial independance and hobbies to stay in the kitchen, clean the house and raise his kid as the perfect housewife should do as women have down historically up until a few decades ago or are you only "traditional" when it suits you?

I am sorry, not trying to be mean, but mumsnet is full of women (rightfully) slagging off men for not doing their part and acting like it's still the 1950's yet a lot of women on this thread seem to happily want to live like the "old days" and talking about "tradition" when it suits them.

FFS I can't believe how many here expect the man to pay, and if he doesn't he's somehow not worth it.

Or worse, the pretend offer on the female part to pay half but fully expecting the guy to stump up.

Where's your self esteem and dignity.

Equality so if you go out with female friends who earn more than you do you expect them to pick up the tab? If they don’t do you refuse to see them again...?

There is a pervasive and depressingly transactional attitude to male/female relationships on this thread.

I wouldn't date a man who didn't pay. It's funny because when I've been out with my sister in restaurants she always points out when she sees a woman pay on a date as she finds it horrifying. She said if she went on a date with a man and he didn't pay she wouldn't pay halves, she would pay the whole lot, then never see him again.

I'm a bit blush to admit that despite being a feminist for as long as I can remember, I would be a bit hmm and even put off by a man who didn't at least offer to pay on the first date

You can not be a feminist and make such a remark.

I'm shocked at people expecting a man to pay but slightly less shocked having seen First Dates - I haven't dated for years but when I did I always paid my share yet here were supposedly modern men feeling obliged to offer to pay the whole thing and modern women saying 'ooh no I couldn't possibly..oh well if you insist.' The one time a man refused to pay the whole tab he was castigated on social media.

Thislittle can you explain why you wouldn't date a man that didn't pay for you. I don't get it

Obviously you should split the cost of a date or at least take it in turns to pay. If you have been going out for a bit then treating each other from time to time is nice. None of my four DC who are in their 20's think that a man should pay because he is a man. They all seem to split costs when they go out.

Expecting a man to pay on an early date is weird and old fashioned. I'm amazed anyone would think otherwise.

Why would I date a man that won't pay when I could date one that would? Most men I've met infact 99% pay. I wouldn't want to date a tight man.

thistlebell . You’re missing the point.

Firstly, I haven’t said anything along the lines of your implication that I wouldn’t see anyone again based on who paid for what on a date.

Secondly, I’m talking about inequality in pay and how that translates to real life experience. And with two women their pay grade average or whatever you want to call it would probably be commensurate based on their sex. Women get paid differently to men, that is less, and they’re paid on a different scale.

So this wouldn’t be an issue with two women on a date regardless of their jobs or how much they earned because they would be paid on a similar scale because they are women.

I’m not eally interested in any transactional issues here at all. I was simply making an observation that a man and a woman on a date - particularly if they are colleagues earning different wages for doing the same work, are unequal financially before they even step into the restaurant.

Thislittlekitty the fact that most men pay is besides the point (and they obviously have to in your company).

The fact that you refuse and expect them to pay makes you as tight as those men you accuse of not paying for you.

Honestly I despair.

I go halves with my friends I think there is nothing more embarrassing then sitting there saying "I had this you had that" and counting pennies

Are your friends really bad at maths or something? 😆. My friends and I all just pay roughly what we have consumed and drunk. I'm not brilliant at maths but I seem to be able to manage it. It's not the least bit awkward. 🤷🏻‍♀️. What's awkward about everyone paying their own way. It means everyone can order what they want and that they don't have to worry about ordering something expensive or cheap.

I love when a man offers to pay for the whole meal/drinks and think its the gentlemanly thing to do. I would bring DS's up to do this. However I always decline and pay half. Because I think it's the decent thing to do. If they didn't offer I think It would turn me off a bit. Also, I have never asked a man out (no idea why, just havnt ever had to). So by them inviting me out I see it as the right thing for them to offer to pay. But, once again, would NEVER let them.

Well I wouldn't want to date a guy who doesn't like putting his hand in his pocket.

I insist on halves if I don't like him and don't intend seeing him again.
If I like him, I'll offer half but let him pay if he insists. And I prefer it if he does. I understand why there's conflict in that idea with equality and independence however, I just like a strong, confident, leading man with really good manners and that type does normally insist!
Much better than one date I went on where his card didn't work to go halves so I HAD to pay for everything! And he'd spent the whole date talking about his ex!

To clarify, I meant physically strong and by leading, I meant decisive, not someone waiting around umming and ahhing.

Is they're happy to be earning 20% more than us than im happy for them to pay for dates, to be honest.

FFS, it gets worse....

As a feminist I am shocked by some of the posts on this thread. Some women clearly don't even want equality with men. They certainly don't deserve equality.

Jesus. I think I’m on the wrong thread.

Just to reiterate: I don’t think anyone should pay more based on gender. I was simply interested in the fundamental inequality between men and women when it comes down to wages earned and how that might inform on real life situations.

I’m not trying to make excuses for people who think a man should pay just because of his sex.

BUT! Men earn more and it’s odd thinking that women want equality and should have equality but are willing - or rather think they ought - to put themselves at even more of a financial disadvantage in order to show how much that equality means to them.

In short, women are fucked from the outset whatever we do because the odds are stacked against us.

Thislittlekitty equally I wouldn't want to date a female who expected the guy to pay all the time either.

It's not about him being tight. It's about you being an equal.

He may offer, but you should genuinely decline. Or take turns.

Don't be a taker.

Equality101 (how ironic).

Believe it or not some women earn equal if not more than men.

And let's say for argument sake that men universally earn more (sigh)...

Would you expect your higher earning female friend to consistently sub you cos she earns more?

Oh go away, ted. Whoosh goes the point over your little head.

And before I retire, you’ve obviously not been paying attention to the news recently.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42580194

Oh yeah, and there was that thing where Michelle Williams got paid $1000 while Mark Wahlberg got $1.5 million for reshoots. Which he was shamed into donating to the TimesUp equality movement. All of this very recent.

But yeah, women don’t get shafted in the pay stakes any more.

Hmm.

Cherry picked equality. Always amusing seeing it displayed in all its glory.