Should men pay for dates or at least offer to pay?

[lottieandmia22]

This is a subject I have a lot of mixed feelings about really. On one hand I can see that it's not fair to expect the man to pay. If he was going on many dates initially he'd be severely out of pocket.

BUT my experience of men who don't at least offer to pay is that later on they seem generally tight. OTOH I was very put off by a man who made huge grand gestures.

What have your experiences been?

It would be nice for a man to offer to pay but it isn't a must.

No that's not what I'm implying. But I think it goes without saying that not sexually harassing a date is something to be expected rather than regarded as a favourable trait.

I'm just pointing out that men and women are different in some ways whether or not that benefits equality.

Different biologically yes but different meaning they should be the ones paying for dates? That’s a real leap of the imagination.

That’s exactly the sort of logic that says women shouldn’t have high flying careers and men can’t do housework.

I like a man for who he is and what he does not what he buys for me

Me too, I want an equal and don't need to be kept. I choose by personality, morals etc not the size of a wallet.

Education does it all it can to raise girls up to believe they can have any career a man can yet so many are still being raised in households where they are shown the very old fashioned way of woman not working as they have a man instead. Quite depressing.

It's funny how so many want equality until it comes to them opening their purses. Yet somehow only men are tight if they don't pay.

It's funny how so many want equality until it comes to them opening their purses. Yet somehow only men are tight if they don't pay

Something to do with women who possibly at some point in the future may decide to have children thus making it incumbent on men today to pay for all aspects of a date, according to the logic of some on here.

Again, you can't see past the "money" and are reducing everything into a binary argument.

Again, you can't see past the "money" and are reducing everything into a binary argument.
The arguement is that men should pay for dates because at sometime in the future the women may decide to become a SAHM and therefore loses out on a potential future income. Looks pretty binary to me.

I would always encourage him to pay on dates and be generous. I think this is one way men show they cherish their dates

wow. the bar is creepily high. Unless your first date is 3 years into your marriage, I don't think you should cherish your date on the first date. Isn't the point of a first date to get to know one another?

It is Birdseye but first impressions mean a lot.

In principle both people should be willing to pay but in reality a man who really wants to impress will insist on paying. And will show that he is thoughtful in many other ways later. Whereas the ones who don't seem to think a good date later on into the process is him slumping on my shoulder at his house or dragging me round homeware stores.

We all have opinions based on our experiences.

I decided to ask my teenage daughter who is more of a feminist than I am what she thinks and she's of the opinion that it's good manners for the guy to pay on the first date.

It just encourages generosity further down the line. It's a kind of social conditioning. For example If someone invited me to dinner I always take wine and a pudding. I think most people do this because it's just expected.

A man who ‘insisted’ on paying wouldn’t impress me, I’d be totally put off.

I would expect the man to pay, though I now suspect I'm the only person on the planet who would.

In reality, a man who wants to impress will find a million other ways of doing it aside from insisting on paying.

We are all conditioned by our experiences and, dare I say it, by our parents’ attitudes. Particularly when young and not yet financially independent.

Happy to ask my friends who are less feminist than me for their views, but not sure it enhances the conversation!

@lottieandmia22 decided to ask my teenage daughter who is more of a feminist than I am what she thinks and she's of the opinion that it's good manners for the guy to pay on the first date.

She was raised by you, with your ideas. That is the very reason why racism, fascism, mysogny etc are still alive and kicking, it's handed down by the generations. She might think she is a feminist, but if you are only picking and choosing what rates as equality. I would have to question that label.

@AthenaAshton
You are not alone. I don't agree with you, but you are not the only one. I'd hope reading through the answers would give you the opportunity to question why you think that way, but it's no big deal if your views are entrenched (mine are).

In principle both people should be willing to pay but in reality a man who really wants to impress will insist on paying.

I just don't get who that will impress.

I decided to ask my teenage daughter who is more of a feminist than I am what she thinks and she's of the opinion that it's good manners for the guy to pay on the first date.

It's certainly not good manners to pay. It's a lot of nice things possibly (generous, kind, giving etc) but not good manners.

You can ask what your daughter thinks of the following, which is one outcome we have seen in this thread. If boys are expected to pay, should parents be giving their sons extra money (this is in fact being done by someone on this thread)? So parents who have both a teenage sons and daughters should give their sons an extra boost as they have more financial responsibilities?

Actually Buck she disagrees with me about plenty of things - she's not a carbon copy of me and has her own views.

It's not surprising I have the opinion I do when the only man who expected me to pay then conveniently fashioned it so that I always paid in the future and was mean in many other ways as well.

Meh, I'll be honest and say it would turn me off a bit if a man didn't offer to pay.

Terrible mindset because we can't expect equality but cover up non equality expectations with "I'm old fashioned" - Which is exactly what I'm doing

DH paid for the hotel we went to when we first met. We discussed it before, and he was like "I've paid for the hotel. If you want to put something towards it that's fine. If not that's cool".

I was quite turned off by that before meeting him but luckily for him he was amazing.

Oh, and I forgot about the hotel cost thing and he only brought it up again and made me sound a CF when reminiscing about our first get together on our wedding night

Of course neither the OP of anyone else would oversimplify the scenario as - "men should pay for date as the woman is one day likely to have her earnings impacted by becoming a mother". That is ridiculous.

However, when a lot of people talk about equality, what they actually mean is that women should be "the same" as men - compete with men in their terms. The fact is, there are biological and psychological differences between men and women that, to a greater or lesser extent, do impact the way their lives are likely to pan out. Women are more impacted by childrearing than men - physically, emotionally and economically. To try and minimise this is to do women a disservice. It's a bit like blandly claiming all cultures are "equal," but really you're just quashing the differences to make them conform to the benchmark of dominant cultural ideals.

Dating doesn't always conform to logic anyway - I think this is what people are missing on here. It's not a politically correct thing to say on MN in these gender neutral times, but many women are more attracted towards men with more traditionally "masculine" characteristics. It's not just about paying or whatever, it's the whole package. Other women feel threatened or offended by this and that's fine too. All relationships have different dynamics.

Good post, Indigo.

I don’t feel threatened or offended, I just don’t see paying for something as a ‘masculine trait’. I pay for my own house, car, food, etc. I’m very feminine. My lover is very masculine in his appearance, voice, behaviour, interests. I just don’t see why I should think less of a man - or think he is less of a man - because he hasn’t forced me to let him pay.

@SandyBabyToes

He didn’t make you sound a CF, you were a CF. Not only not contributing but actually putting it as a mark against him that he said you could if you wanted to but didn’t have to? And letting him ‘redeem himself’ from that error? That’s almost the very essence of CF.

@1ndig0 at least you admit it’s not logical