Should men pay for dates or at least offer to pay?

[lottieandmia22]

This is a subject I have a lot of mixed feelings about really. On one hand I can see that it's not fair to expect the man to pay. If he was going on many dates initially he'd be severely out of pocket.

BUT my experience of men who don't at least offer to pay is that later on they seem generally tight. OTOH I was very put off by a man who made huge grand gestures.

What have your experiences been?

lottieandmia22 you seem to be suggesting that on a 1st date, the women should not pay because it might turn into a marriage & the women looses out on pay as she may decide to take a career break and stay at home & look after the children and the house.
By the same logic, the man having paid for the evening can expect the women to come round and clean his toilet because it's something she might be doing in later years as a SAHM?

JudgeJudy - I think my son and his friends who are 14/15 would want to pay for a "girlfriend" they are in Shake Shack with or whatever because to them, that makes it a date, rather than just two friends out and about.

I would always encourage him to pay on dates and be generous. I think this is one way men show they cherish their dates

Cherish? Cherish?! Dear god

It's not really about leeching off men. It's merely going back to the obvious fact that women are the ones who have babies and more often than not have to take time out of their careers to look after or at least carry and birth them.

WTAF?!!! So if my 21 year old student ds goes for a meal with a woman he should pay because at some point in the future (but not at the moment) her income may be less than his because she may (or may not) take time out to have babies?!

And never mind that he's funny, thoughtful, handsome and intelligent- he would be considered mean if he didn't pick up the bill?

How utterly depressing.

The only man that always insisted on splitting all the bills even though I was financially much worse that him turned out to be a total misogynist tight arse.
Just because they split the bill that doesn't mean they get equality between the sexes they just use the parts that suit them to their advantage.

I agree user.

'WTAF?!!! So if my 21 year old student ds goes for a meal with a woman he should pay because at some point in the future (but not at the moment) her income may be less than his because she may (or may not) take time out to have babies?!'

I think it's more socially acceptable for students to split the bill tbh.

And just because a man will split the bill doesn't mean that he is a tight misogynist arse (though am aware we are lots of us drawing conclusions from our - presumably small, in relation to the size of the male population! - personal dating samples. I have had a really happy relationship/dating history, for the most part)

I'm just pointing out that men and women are different in some ways whether or not that benefits equality.

Pre-marriage, we each took the other on dates and paid. There's something romantic about it, but not when it's always one person.

On a first date I'd expect to split the bill, or if the man was insistent, I'd pay for drinks or something.

I really don't know why people get so het up about this kind of thing on MN. If I want to treat my friends, I might take them out for dinner. If you're on a date with a man and he wants to show he's making an effort, then you would expect him to want to choose something he can afford and pay for - or if he really couldn't afford anything, just suggest a walk or something. Where is the drama?

I should also say I'm originally from a Southern European country and people just wouldn't bother obsessing that every such gesture is a "statement" about equality. Dating is not an enactment of section whatever of the Equal Opportunities Act fgs! Most people are more than capable of making distinctions between say, equality in the workplace and dating dynamics.

People have different perspectives. For instance, in the culture DH is partly from, having your wife have to go back to work a few months after having a baby would be viewed as shameful and even abusive to mother and child, whereas here, it's seen as "independence" or the feminist choice! Or it happens out necessity because of the way our society operates.

Just because they split the bill that doesn't mean they get equality between the sexes they just use the parts that suit them to their advantage.

sounds like a theme on this thread. It's not just men using the inequality to their advantage.

Of course it's not the case that all, or even most, men who want to split the bill are doing it for altruistic reasons. You are definitely not a nice guy if you want equality when it suits your group. But hey it's clear that it's not only men who do that.

Interesting that parents are giving their sons money specifically so they can take a date out. As I said earlier, men having to pay justifies unequal wages. Would the same parents give their daughters extra money? doesn't that perpetuate wage gap problem?

I think it's more socially acceptable for students to split the bill tbh.

But not when he graduates and dates people who may be on a higher/same income as him?

It's not really about leeching off men. It's merely going back to the obvious fact that women are the ones who have babies and more often than not have to take time out of their careers to look after or at least carry and birth them

You keep on returning to this nonsense point Lottie. What has a women’s future decision to start a family (probably not with the man she is on a date with) has to do with her ability to offer to buy a round of drinks or go Dutch? Why do you keep labouring this utterly redundant point?

It's not a redundant point - we'll agree to differ. Men and women do still have different roles even in 2018 and that is my point.

lottieandmia22

So the man should pay on the off chance that he will get his date pregnant.

I thought that we had moved away from the expectation of sex.

Men and women do still have different roles even in 2018 and that is my point.

There are certain roles that will probably never change, and that's based in biology. I doubt we will ever be to the point where many men are having babies.

But economic roles are changing, and fast. that's a good thing, even if some little things go.

It's not really about leeching off men. It's merely going back to the obvious fact that women are the ones who have babies and more often than not have to take time out of their careers to look after or at least carry and birth them

What nonsense of course it's about leeching off men to expect them to pay. Why on earth should they have to simply because they have a penis and can't give birth.

Nice life lesson to girls there, you don't need money just a man that can pay.

Men and women do still have different roles even in 2018 and that is my point.

And the role of a man, in 2018, is to pay all the bills when on a first date, and the role of a women is to call him tight if he falls short of this expectation?

There are many ways a person can show that he ‘cherishes’ me on a date.

They can show up on time
Be clean and presentable
Let me speak and listen to my views
Not force themselves on me sexually
Say please and thank you
Be polite to the waiting staff
Be courteous about being in contact afterwards even if it’s just to say they had a nice time but don’t see themselves seeing me again

Paying has absolutely fucking nothing to do with it and it saddens me there are people saying to their teenage sons ‘because you’re a man you should x y z’.

In mumsnet terms expecting a man to pay is completely CF territory.

what she said 👏👏👏 @chestylarue52

You think not forcing himself on you sexually is a sign of a decent man? So if someone is not abusive they're a decent catch? Er, ok

What? How did you take that from my post?

Well that's what you said

It really isn’t.

We were discussing whether paying shows that you ‘cherish’ your date.

I think how you feel about someone shows how you behave towards them and conduct yourself, including whether for example you swoop in for an unwanted kiss, or maintain a respectful boundary.

I don’t think it has anything to do with who pays. I like a man for who he is and what he does not what he buys for me.

Nowhere did I say that all a man has to do to get me to like him is not be abusive.

Maybe you’re trying to imply that because I don’t expect a man to pay I have low standards?